Update on Joel Roth's Beck Super Coupe-Seats

IMHO the Monte Carlo looks more appropriate for the SC.  Either ought to be really comfortable.  I envy you a little bit about the extra space you'll have with  the rear engine.

Thanks Lane. The mid-engine car is great. But for me, the extra space I am getting with the rear engine location was really important. But even if the mid-engine had the same extra space I would still pick the rear engine layout. I like the look of the interior with the rear seats better than the mid-engine layout with no rear seats.

Also, the rear engine layout allows you to open the rear engine lid and see an engine. Something I like. It is closer to the original in looks. Even though it is "rear engine", it is more forward than the original, and has a modern suspension, so it will handle far better. However, the mid-engine will handle even better because of the weight distribution. So if you are not too tall and plan on racing the car, the mid-engine would be a better choice. But since I am 6'2" and not really planning on racing, the rear engine car was a better choice for me. Comfort and looks were more important than handling for me.

So, like everything else in life it  really comes down to personal choice. .

Your car is great. Having the first one is also extra special.

On the seats, Carey said the same thing as you. I am very torn between the two different styles. What do you think about the grommets and the headrests?

Love the grommets and think you should go with the round headrests on the Monte Carlos.  If you go with the Sport S, the rectangular headrests are more appropriate.  Remind me what color your car will be, please.  I'd be happy to help make all the choices again.

For the exterior I am thinking of painting the car either Slate Gray (Dark Gray) or Graphite Gray (Medium Gray Metallic) or maybe even Silver.

Interior I was thinking of Oxblood or Saddle/Tan or if I go with silver exterior, a Black leather interior.

Now I remember.  It is, of course, your car, but I'll put in a vote for slate gray with oxblood - one of my favorite combos.

Joel, Those rivets get very hot in the sun and will burn you especially wearing shorts.  .. I bought a similar seat years ago and learned the hard way.   

My choice would be the Monte Carlo - the Sport S are too boxy and square at the top which would cut down on open feel of the cabin.  I like stone grey (first used by Porsche in 1959) with a plum colored interior.  The dark greys seem too modern IMHO.

I’m with @WOLFGANG on the seat choice the Sport S look too square.

Thanks guys. While Florida is very sunny, I don't plan on leaving it out in the sun too often. Plus, its a Coupe and I think the grommets are just too cool looking to pass up. I can keep a towel in the car in case I park it in the sun or get one of those windshield visors to block the sun.

Stone Gray was the color I first picked, but then I thought it was too light and a little Green. I want something a little darker, but I think the Slate Gray is is too dark. There is always Silver. A classic and with a Black leather interior and the Black gauges I picked on a Silver dash and Black and Silver Fuchs it would look great.

Everyone is telling me to go with the Monte Carlo seats (even my wife). So it looks like that will be the seat (with grommets).

if ur married just do what she likes,,it'll come back to haunt U ...married 16 yrs,,single 30+...do what i want,,my SO 22 years, gorgeous, is the same way..(car wise that is)

Not a bad color combo!!

slate gray with burgundy interior can't be beat.

I'll play the other side of the coin; not a fan of burgundy or ox blood or whatever. To me it looks dated but not in a good way. ymmv

I'm starting to really like baseball glove or weathered brown (darker than tan) interiors

@Joel Roth posted:

Thanks Lane. The mid-engine car is great. But for me, the extra space I am getting with the rear engine location was really important. But even if the mid-engine had the same extra space I would still pick the rear engine layout. I like the look of the interior with the rear seats better than the mid-engine layout with no rear seats.

Also, the rear engine layout allows you to open the rear engine lid and see an engine. Something I like. It is closer to the original in looks. Even though it is "rear engine", it is more forward than the original, and has a modern suspension, so it will handle far better. However, the mid-engine will handle even better because of the weight distribution. So if you are not too tall and plan on racing the car, the mid-engine would be a better choice. But since I am 6'2" and not really planning on racing, the rear engine car was a better choice for me. Comfort and looks were more important than handling for me.

So, like everything else in life it  really comes down to personal choice. .

Your car is great. Having the first one is also extra special.

On the seats, Carey said the same thing as you. I am very torn between the two different styles. What do you think about the grommets and the headrests?

@Joel Roth have you sat on the seat?  Once you do you will know. Also how your using the car can dictate how comfortable you need them to be 😎

No I have not sat in the seats. The company is in Austin, TX and I am in Miami, FL. I don't think I will be able to sit in them until I buy them. That's why I am asking if anyone has sat in them and can tell me how they feel compared to the Speedster seats

@Joel Roth ah. I thought you have a chance to check it out. Probably with your set up being tuck in the seat would help with enthusiastic driving 👍👍👍

@Joel Roth posted:

Thanks guys. While Florida is very sunny, I don't plan on leaving it out in the sun too often. Plus, its a Coupe and I think the grommets are just too cool looking to pass up. I can keep a towel in the car in case I park it in the sun or get one of those windshield visors to block the sun.

Stone Gray was the color I first picked, but then I thought it was too light and a little Green. I want something a little darker, but I think the Slate Gray is is too dark. There is always Silver. A classic and with a Black leather interior and the Black gauges I picked on a Silver dash and Black and Silver Fuchs it would look great.

Everyone is telling me to go with the Monte Carlo seats (even my wife). So it looks like that will be the seat (with grommets).

Alan just warns people about the hot rivets but he never shows us a picture of him wearing the shorts in which he got burned so I searched the internet and I think I found the picture:

@Joel Roth posted:

No I have not sat in the seats. The company is in Austin, TX and I am in Miami, FL. I don't think I will be able to sit in them until I buy them. That's why I am asking if anyone has sat in them and can tell me how they feel compared to the Speedster seats

Joel, GTS is the company that’s building Marty his Alfa seats. From what Marty has posted, they seem pretty amenable to making the customer happy.
I’d call them and ask someone if they have a dealer in Miami. I can’t believe there isn’t some resto/repair/speed shop in Miami that stocks GTS seats.

Hey you could always have them pipe in some cool AC air throught those rivets

I think the grommets will be a good heat sink by absorbing solar energy during the day and releasing it at night. I plan on applying for a solar energy tax credit to help fund the build. You think it will work?

On a different note, I was thinking of using a turned engine metal product to cover the face of the dash. I have not seen anything like this in any 356's I have seen, but I would think that someone has done this before.

It was a popular treatment in a lot of luxury cars and hot rod cars in the 50's and 60's. If you  are not failure with this treatment it consists of machining a series of overlapping circles onto the face of metal. It is sometimes also referred to as jeweling. You do not see this finish too often today. Mostly in high end cars or customs. They make it in different size circles from 1/2" to 1 1/2" for car interiors.

It is very time consuming to do yourself. But today they sell pre-made sheets of stainless steel or aluminum that are not too expensive. Maybe $150-250 to cover the face of a dash in a 356. But the look you will get will be amazing. They also sell a metallic vinyl that is very inexpensive, but I rather spend a little more for the real thing. The company that makes this product will even cut it for you as well as make the cutouts for all the gauges and switches if you send them a pattern with the location of the cutouts.

Let me know what you think?

Here is a picture of the product:

Joel:  There's a wrap for that!

Someone on here did that treatment to a 550 Spyder dash insert.  My only caveat would be that 356 lower dash is curved under slightly - If you can get the aluminum sheet to follow that curve, you're golden.  

Try googling "Engine Turned Wrap" or "Engine Turned Aluminum Wrap" and you should get a bunch of hits. Make a paper template of where you want it to be, cut it out to fit, peel of the backing and stick it on.  Easy-Peasy and few, if any, will detect that it's a plastic wrap.  Even the later Pontiac Trans-Am dash was a plastic, engine-turned insert.

Here's the first one that popped up:

https://www.amazon.com/Engine-...-Curve/dp/B0057YJOBK

Thanks. I saw the vinyl/plastic products but I am concerned that they will start to peal after a few years. Plus, they will not have the same feel as the real stuff.

I know the metal sheets they use are very thin and will flex to follow simple curves, so, I think it will work. I may ask Carey to flatten the face of the dash first to have as flat a surface to work with to start. I was thinking of using it across the entire dash including the glove box and radio area.

Joel,

First, let me start by saying that I'm really impressed with you and with the choices you are making with this car. Deciding to go with the rear engine is absolutely the right thing, in my unwashed opinion. Yes, it means the balance is compromised, but the space that is gained will make the car far, far more useful for the kind of "GT" application a coupe seems to be designed for. A good driver in a rear-engined car can run circles around a lesser driver in a better balanced car, and most guys here can't (or don't want to) really drive hard anyhow - so I'm unsure how and when this became a thing.

There's also the "essence" of the car to consider. How much of the original soul of a car do you want to preserve? Keeping the rear engine layout, and going with a Porsche mill is going to keep the flavor of the original car strong.

The seats you are considering are really cool, eyelets and all. The difficulty in a protracted build process is in determining the ethos of the car and keeping an eye on the prize. The car (when finished) will not be a collection of pieces, ideally it will be a seamless whole. Individual choices bolster that whole, or detract from it. Some cars just ooze their purpose - Jim Ignacio's car nails this, as does Marcel's (over on the other side of the pond) most recently. On those cars, everything that should be there is there, and everything that should not be there isn't.

It's much, much easier to pull off if you know what you want the car to be. You are asking our opinion on things, but we're just getting a sense of what it is you are after. What we are seeing from the other side of the screen are some pretty cool individual parts, but whether or not they work with your particular build is something only you can really know - because it is you who has the idea what you think the car should be.

A guy can make these cars into almost anything, but not into EVERYTHING all at once. It's just as easy to do too much as not enough.

If I understand the idea (the essence, the ethos) of your car, I wouldn't do the turned metal dash. I think it'd look busy and a little too "precious".

But the important thing is what you see. If it fits with your vision of what this car will be, what you'd like it to say, how you'd like to use it - then go for it. You do you. We'll be out here, at the other end of the wire, watching it go together.

Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.

Stan:

Thank-you for your kind words. I understand exactly what you are saying. I am trying to build a car that captures the look, but more importantly the spirit of a Porsche 356 Outlaw Coupe. There are certain "key" elements that most Porsche 356 Outlaw Coupes share, but they are not all them same. There are various degrees of "Outlaw" from mild to let's say "wild". And within that framework there are a lot of individual choices one can make like paint color to wheels to engine and still have what is clearly an "Outlaw" Coupe.

I am looking to personalize it for me to reflect my particular vision. As you said, a "great" car is not just a collection of its individual parts, but it is the overall effect of all these individual items and choices and how they come together that make the car. You can certainly "overdo" it, by trying to do too much.

That is what everyone who builds and/or designs a car has to guard against. You have this vision and this idea of all the things you like and want in a car, but putting them all into one particular car may not work. In the end the car needs to be a harmonious collection of its parts. It needs to be whole. By trying to stuff everything you like and want into the car you may lose the spirit of what you are trying to achieve. I get it.

In this case, my thought process with building this Outlaw Coupe, is less is more. That is the spirt of the thing. That is its essence, its beauty and purity. And that is why this forum is very important and very helpful to me. I really appreciate the comments and feedback. To talk about these things with people who have this car, who built this car, who love and appreciate this car is invaluable. It helps me with making individual decisions and also to see the line and if I crossed it.

I will give you one example. I love gauges. I love the look of an aircraft cockpit interior. Initially, I was thinking I wanted to replicate this look for the dash/interior of my car. So, initially I thought I would use two 4" gauges above the steering wheel for the speedo and tach, and then add six other 2 1/6" gauges in the center of the dash for fuel, water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, volts and the clock. I quickly realized (with impute from Carey) that this would not work. It probably would not fit, even if I moved one of the gauges in between the tach and speedo. Even if it did fit, it would make the dash too cluttered and too busy. Something was being lost. So I went back and reworked the gauge layout. Now I plan on using three 4" gauges: tach centered above the steering wheel, speedo to the right and one 4" quad gauge with water temp, oil temp, oil pressure and volts to the left, and one stand alone 2 5/8" fuel gauge in the center of the dash where the clock traditionally would go. I am not going to use a clock in this layout.  This layout copies the original layout but is modernized and given an Outlaw feel with the use of Black face gauges with Black bezels and white numbers and red tips on modern analog gauges.  The look and spirt of the original car is preserved and captured.

Thanks,

Joel

Joel:  I've got the picture of the engine turned lower dash in my head and can see where you're going with it, but refresh me with what colors you are planning for the car's exterior and for the interior colors, especially if you have a dash-top cover.   The jewelry-like look of that dash intrigues me no end.

As Stan so beautifully explained, his usual style, one should flesh out his vision of what one wants his car to be.  Having been to Carlisle a few times you get to see the expressions of each owner in their cars.  I really appreciated that it brings reality to the hobby and the multitude of likes, dislikes and opinions. You go from 356 CLONE, to outlaw,  to hoopty all in one day. (referencing the hoopty creation here) love it.

BTW, Tanner has a really nice Dash set up with a LARGER tach from a 911 then on both sides the other normal 356 gauges, speedo etc.  If @Tanner Speedster he could post a pict you might like it.  Not SCoupe style but very nice IMO.

I sometime think the multiple guage from a 911 showing 4 items ould be a nice addition on my dash,.. just saying.  Enjoy the ride adon Yoel.

Hi Gordon:

I am going for an overall Outlaw Coupe look. The exterior/interior colors are still undecided at this time. However, the top four exterior/interior combinations in order are:

1. Slate Gray/Oxblood.

2.Graphite Gray Metallic/Tan/Saddle.

3. Nardo Gray/Black.

4. Silver/Black.

For the overall build I am planning on doing an Outlaw Style Coupe:

1. Remove front and rear bumpers.

2. Center Fuel Tank/Gas Cap.

3. Twin front clear driving lights.

4. Stone guards on headlights.

5. Twin front yellow lower fog lights.

6. Fuchs rims with Black centers and polished rims.

7. Twin racing style mirrors.

8. Beehive rear tail lights.

9. Twin tip center mounted exhaust.

10. Interior roll bar.

11. Rear engine (Porsche 911 996 motor with 320 +/- HP with 6 speed manual transmission.)

12. Speed Hut interior gauges with Black faces, black bezels and white numbers and red tips.

"6. Fuchs rims with Black centers and polished rims."

Black or chrome lug nuts?

"2. Center Fuel Tank/Gas Cap."

I wonder if off to one side might not be easier at fill up time ?  just saying.

Found the Tab Tanner dash pict ... interesting but as they say here.... you do you.

Finally here is the multitude guage

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Joel:  I've got the picture of the engine turned lower dash in my head and can see where you're going with it, but refresh me with what colors you are planning for the car's exterior and for the interior colors, especially if you have a dash-top cover.   The jewelry-like look of that dash intrigues me no end.

Engine turned looks great even on my recent dune buggy build

@Stan Galat posted:

A guy can make these cars into almost anything, but not into EVERYTHING all at once. It's just as easy to do too much as not enough.

If I understand the idea (the essence, the ethos) of your car, I wouldn't do the turned metal dash. I think it'd look busy and a little too "precious".

That, all the way ^^^^^

That's what I am trying to get a sense of whether the turned engine metal covering for the dash would look too over the top and too much for the car or would it look right for an Outlaw?

Here is my dash with a quad gauge:

Yes, that's basically the same as what I am planning on doing, except I am removing the fuel gauge from the quad gauge and adding an oil temp and then using a stand alone fuel gauge in the center of the dash where the clock would go. Your gauges are the traditional 356 Speedster green. Mine are going to be black faced with black bezels and white numbers and red pointers. More like the gauges in a 911. But yours looks great. What a classic 356 Speedster should look like.

Just remember that the Speedster dash was a unique shape, very different from the Coupe and Cabriolet.  What looks good on one might not look so good on another.

I know. The Speedster has a much smaller dash just like the 550 Spyder. I think the  turned engine material looks good in small areas. But I have also seen it used in larger areas across an entire dash.  So I think it would look good applied to the Coupe dash.

The real question is whether it goes with the Outlaw look I an trying to achieve?

One view is that it is too luxurious and does not go. Yes, I think it can look very luxurious in a luxury car. But I also think it has a kind of industrial look or feel to it that would also go well with an Outlaw look.

Feel free to chime it here.

Joel

I’m impressed with all of the thought and imagination that’s goes into this process. Me I just plagiarize. Why waste all of the ATP on creativity when I can just copy someone else’s idea. I copied a real French race car for my Spyder and I plan on copying an existing Emory outlaw for my 356 D. Obviously I have no shame.

Hey your car looks great. And if its what you want then so much the better. Copy away. Look Emory invented the Outlaw look. Everyone who builds an Outlaw is copying something to some extent from his work and designs.

I love his work. However, that said, I do not love everything that he did for my car. This is where you have to pick and chose what you like and do not like for you. Then you get to add things or change things to suit your tastes. One size does not fit all. You do what you want and what you like.

Joel

I kept my dash stock, except for the A/C vents below it.  To capture the outlaw vibe I went with Speedster seats, the roll bar, racing harnesses, the custom steering wheel, and the aluminum pedals, including a dead pedal that Carey added.  I think it captured my desired ambience quite well - emphasis on "my".  I have a feeling you're car, although different from mine, will be equally successful at capturing your desired ambience.

This process is kinda fun, isn't it?   By the way, this Emory outlaw was my inspiration: https://silodrome.com/porsche-356-outlaw-car/

That Emory that your copying Phil, is really worth copying.  Love the colours and just about everything on it including the removable elongated hardtop.  Who does not appreciate a good idea

BTW, I just came back from a 120 mile run, left in the light, came back in the dark, the car ran great and I really was thankful I could still enjoy it as the weather is getting colder but that God I have real heat in my full subie, and seat heaters

Very nice Michael I didn't realize youhad the quad gauges.  

In Virginia I do manage to keep the Spyder running most of the year. I’ve got seat heaters and a hard tonneau that does a good job keeping air out of the cockpit. But it will be nice to have the Suby Conv D with hardtop. 2 years away?

Real Spyder copied. Not exact but pretty close. Capri blue was the French racing color back in the day.

I have seen pictures of this car before and the article. Some engine!

GTS out of Texas (the company I was thinking of using to buy my seats from) made his interior and seats as well.

It is fun. The biggest problem is the wait/build time.

Joel

I get the feeling you really want to do the engine turned dash, and if that's the case, you should.

My personal opinion is that it's a little over the top. Your car is going to be a serious outlaw beast with the 996 engine sitting behind you. For me the dash needs to say there's nothing cute or frilly about the car. Think Emory outlaw vs Big Daddy Ed Roth outlaw.

LEss is more on engine turning in my opinion, and it is more North American IMO. I see it on Cobra's etc.

You could go really outlaw and use diamond plate!

If you want to use the metal plate for the dash what about just a brushed steel look as opposed to the circle turned dash? A circle turned steel dash seems to be more of an 80’s hot rod thing.

.

If not the dash, maybe...

.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

If not the dash, maybe...

.

No! Bad Mitch!

These are the best shots I have of mine so far.  The shift knob has since been replaced with a teak/ebony one Mike and I made to match the wheel.

Lane:

Now that I see the dash in full I think the engine turned stainless steel would look great and work very well with the Outlaw look. The main dash looks basically flat, top to bottom and left to right, except for the area where the radio goes and the glove box cover. I think they could cover the main dash in one piece, and have two separate pieces to cover the glove box lid and where the radio goes. The hardest part would be accurately locating the cut outs for the gauges and switches.

Lane. Truly the look of a content man.  Really like the roll bar. I too will be doing a roll bar. Carey said the Conv D looks better with the roll bar than the speedster because of the higher windshield. That’s with the hard top off of course.
Hey Joel (sorry if this has already been mentioned) did you consider a turbo Suby?  Same 300 hp as the 996 but much cheaper to buy and install. I considered a turbo Suby in my 356 build but my Spyder is already scary fast so I decided to go more civilized. When did you order your car?  Ordered mine about 6 months ago. The wait is a killer.

Joel have you seen this outlaw (from outlawgarage.com.au)?  Perhaps a bit overboard, and harder to do in a replica, but they sure stuck with a theme.  Dash appears to be brushed, and I would agree with Robert.

A silver exterior in silver is one of your choices, with black interior.  You could add a wide black vinyl stripe which could always be removed if you change your mind (although I’m guessing the grill would need to be painted).  I like how they terminated the stripe on the roof near the windshield, but not all the way to the windshield.

Exterior:

@MusbJim posted:

You could go really outlaw and use diamond plate!

I used aluminum diamond plate on the Dolphin Mod-T dune buggy dash.  Where the gauges contacted the diamond bumps - I had to Dremel them off so the gauges would fit flush.

Just checked. Joel ordered his 4/21. I ordered mine 5/21. Hopefully I will have an opportunity to see Joel’s build in progress. Obviously it will be quite impressive. He’s got me thinking about a turbo Suby. Mine will be embarrassed sitting next to that monster with a measly naturally aspirated Suby.

"measly" is not the appropriate word, Phil.  It's still very quick, and I'll take low maintenance any day.  That said, I think Joel is going for the outlaw Porsche 356 vibe full bore, and the 996 motor is perfect for that.

@Joel Roth posted:

I think they could cover the main dash in one piece, and have two separate pieces to cover the glove box lid and where the radio goes. The hardest part would be accurately locating the cut outs for the gauges and switches.

Joel, I suspect they could locate the cut outs pretty easily. My first thoughts would be to make a cardboard template to locate the holes on both the main dash and the stainless dash. If the main dash was already cut, you could position the stainless on top and reach around behind to score the cut outs on the back of the stainless. Not difficult at all.

I received an email from Carey indicating that he thinks that they could do it. He said he thinks most of it would be straight forward and relatively easy. However, he indicated that the ends of the dash have a complex, compound curve that  is a problem. We are currently looking for a solution to this.

Joel

Have them cover the compound curved part in leather.  Their upholstery shop is first rate.

OK guys, after talking with Carey I decided that trying to cover the face of the dash with Engine Turned metal is going to be too difficult and not worth all the time and effort to try. So I am dropping this idea.

However, I think I settled on a color choice. Silver exterior and Black interior, and seats with grommets. Its classic and will give the car a great Outlaw vibe. 

So…what flavor of silver?  

Like everything else there are a number of different Silver colors. However, I like the GT Silver Metallic. It is a little darker than some of the others.

@Joel Roth See silver coupes (in metal) at ..140, ..155, and ..166 of this set https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVUvSDS . Sorry I didn't shoot more coupe interiors for you.

Same paint color I’m going with, good choice.  

@Joel Roth posted:

Like everything else there are a number of different Silver colors. However, I like the GT Silver Metallic. It is a little darker than some of the others.

I really like the GT Silver Metallic as well. I believe it has a black base coat that really gives the silver color a nice look. Reminds me of mercury.

@Robert M posted:

I really like the GT Silver Metallic as well. I believe it has a black base coat that really gives the silver color a nice look. Reminds me of mercury.

That color should be named "T-1000"

@DannyP posted:

That color should be named "T-1000"

Like this kind of T1000?

It was a TOTALLY different car than the Chevrolet Chevette. It had a Pontiac emblem, see?

OK guys, with the Engine Turned Dash off the table, what do you think of a set of two of these stopwatches mounted side by side on the glove box lid?

Engine turned dash: No.
Rally clocks: Yes.

I've seen them sold as mounted matching sets on eBay ...nice looking addition for sure. Watch the pricing for the pair as they are all over the place and can be found for under $300.

@Alan Merklin posted:

I've seen them sold as mounted matching sets on eBay ...nice looking addition for sure. Watch the pricing for the pair as they are all over the place and can be found for under $300.

I suppose that depends on how picky a guy is. The <$300 sets all have a problem (clocks don't match, font on the dials is not period correct, pair makes no sense as a rally clock, etc.).

A set of Heuer Monte Carlos can't be had for 10x that much, but they are the high-water mark for rally clocks.

The Rudenmeister set is not less than $300, but it's a nice bit of kit, and not Heuer money.

@Stan Galat posted:

The Rudenmeister set is not less than $300, but it's a nice bit of kit, and not Heuer money.

That’s the first time I’ve ever seen (noticed?) the two inner spirals on the MPH scale. All my chronographs have just had a 60-600 circle. Including the one on my phone, which is the one I use now. I haven’t worn a watch since I retired.

ps: This is your reminder that 250mph is a mile every 15 seconds.

Just a counter-point on things I put in my car. I never want to worry about anyone seeing something in my car that would seriously tempt them to try to take it loose or to cut the top.

Even with the 911s, I never locked them and only put the top up if it looked like rain or bird poop.

Life is too short for me to fret over a car that is supposed to make me happy and it doesn't have to be perfect or fancy to do that.

That being said, my better half picked out the Nardi steering wheel and I attached it with tamper resistant screws to reduce the temptation for someone to tamper with it. I am afraid of the wrath of some people.

.

Michael's thoughts on leading folks not unto temptation are mine, too.

A coupe might be slightly more secure than an open car, but the other side of that is that a buttoned up tonneau does a better job of hiding your temptations from the would-be tempted.

The sad thing is that the would-be tempted probably won't know the difference between the Heuer originals and a modern copy, so either would be equally gone.

I never leave anything in the car I would miss much if taken.

.

We just had a series of auto burgs last week here. In three of seven cases the cars weren't locked. Two handguns were taken. They happened between 2:00am and 3:00 am, all in driveways in front of homes.

Nuts. Guns left in cars overnight? Just terrific.

on some acreage, never lock cars,loooong driveway,i can hear the UPS guy a mile away...dog hears better than me,,have the 1911 on the nightstand in case..

My car will be parked in a secure garage in my condo building However, the Stopwatches are removable so if I really felt it was an issue I cold always take them off and bring them in. However, there are a lot of "expensive" cars in my building so I am not really worried about it. Plus, I love the look of the stopwatches. They will give the car a nice finishing touch.

I agree with you, Joel, and have thought about doing something similar.  I'm just worried about it looking too busy.  If you do it, you may want to add a chain or something to prevent the extra weight from straining the hinges when the glovebox door is opened.  It's just a single piece of fiberglass and the hinges are small.

I don't think it will look too busy. My dash will look essentially just like yours. We both have 3 large 4" gauges above the steering wheel, and one in the center above the radio. My actual gauges are different than yours, but they are the same size and in the same location. The dash is actually pretty simple and clean so I don't think adding a set of dash mounted Rally Stopwatches will make it look too busy. I like the Heuer gauges. But the are way too expensive. These are very reasonable, especially if you get 2 Stopwatches/Timers and not the Clock. The Clock is 3x's the price of the Stopwatches/Timers. Nice, but not worth it.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

The sad thing is that the would-be tempted probably won't know the difference between the Heuer originals and a modern copy, so either would be equally gone.

Which gives us the new ad tagline, "TAG Heuer, timepieces for the decerning thief."

Here is my time piece. A $10 beauty I bought at Walmart. "Secured" to the windshield post with a piece of floral wire.

You guys are sissy's. Anyone can steal anything out of your car at any time. So I am supposed to not do what I want because I have to be afraid that someone is going to steal my stopwatches out of my car? No, I don't live my life in fear.

Nice watch, but not what I had in mind.

Recently sold on BAT…

umm I dont get it..starting to sound like Rennlist,,,guy trying to sell some watch for $42K,,,gimmmee a break..ill take the $10 Walmart watch

Did the car come with those Heuers? I'll take the Runden Meisters for $300.

@Joel Roth posted:

You guys are sissy's. Anyone can steal anything out of your car at any time. So I am supposed to not do what I want because I have to be afraid that someone is going to steal my stopwatches out of my car? No, I don't live my life in fear.

I like the idea of the watch and if properly secured they'll be difficult to steal. Years back there was talk of car alarms and a lot of guys here said don't worry, the car is too unique to steal. Hard to steal the watches off of the dash if everyone is checking out the car. Use Torx fasteners, or security Torx head fasteners or one of the other specialty fasteners that slow people down enough that they might get caught if concerned about theft.

@Joel Roth : I like the look you are going for…and no, you should not live your life in fear.

I have heard tell of people coming back to their vehicles only to find people around or IN the car having pictures taken.  God help anyone uninvited guest in my ride.

What I can say is that simply buttoning up the tonneau cover effectively “hides” what’s in the cabin; even the entire dash is concealed.

What concerns me more is the thought of a criminal destroying the area around the item they want to swipe.  I’ve seen a $100 stereo ripped from a dashboard causing hundreds of dollars in damage.  I also agree the attention these cars garner can make a quick bit of thievery harder to accomplish.

Yeah. A couple times I found people posing for pictures IN my Spyder. They had the audacity(understatement) to unsnap the tonneau cover, believe it or not. Brass balls, that. In both cases they were young and female. Apparently Daddy never told them NO.

Most people actually have sense and leave it alone, especially if the tonneau is on. I tend to park within eyesight since then.

I live 60 miles north of NYC, so I attribute these instances to that proximity.

I have mentioned this before but .....Many years ago when NJ Replicar Club  was at Carlisle one of our members " Michel"  who was " French American" had a Neo Classic car with painted long running boards, some little kid ran up and down the running board as the idiot parent watched. To hear Michel bellow at the top of his lungs in a rapid mix of English and French with every other word being a clear " F -ER" was memorable to say the least .

DannyP:

We see people doing stupid stuff all the time in our area. It seems that when some folks go on vacation in a resort area they think that everything is a Disney ride or subject to their personal use. Folks with homes on the beach can have a heck of a time keeping people from coming onto their property to use their outdoor showers, swimming pools and patios. Since homes here sit well above the beaches on dunes or have some other form of barrier to entry you would think tourists would appreciate the boundaries.

Of course alcohol, hot sun or other stimulants might just play a role in this, but some folks are just idiots.

Official Thread Drift Alert.

Don't look at ME!

Hey Joel, there are some good pics in this BaT posting, including one of the dash that you'll like.

https://bringatrailer.com/list...965-porsche-356c-14/

I like my Rudenmeister's better. I just Ordered them. I will have the stopwatches way before the car.

I know the car in the auction is a "real" Porsche 356, but I have to tell you I like our cars much better. First, our cars cost far less. Second, think of how much money you would have to spend to bring the car in the auction up to the level of our car's fit and finish. Third, our car's performance and handling blow the "original" out of the water (no pun intended). Fourth, our cars accelerate, handle, and brake far better than the original ever could dream of, and we have real AC.

All things considered, I will take our cars hands down over the original.

@Joel Roth posted:

I like my Rudenmeister's better. I just Ordered them. I will have the stopwatches way before the car.

I know the car in the auction is a "real" Porsche 356, but I have to tell you I like our cars much better. First, our cars cost far less. Second, think of how much money you would have to spend to bring the car in the auction up to the level of our car's fit and finish. Third, our car's performance and handling blow the "original" out of the water (no pun intended). Fourth, our cars accelerate, handle, and brake far better than the original ever could dream of, and we have real AC.

All things considered, I will take our cars hands down over the original.

I love everything about this post.

You have "the madness" in a bad way, Mr. Roth. You've touched almost every station of the cross on the road toward becoming a "lifer". The bottom line is that I'd love my car no more or less if it replicated nothing at all - if there had never been an "original". I love my car for what it is, not for what it replicates or what people think of it (I play it down every chance I get, and couldn't care less if people think I'm a fake/flake for driving a "fake").

I also like the Rudenmeisters better than the white-faced Heuer clocks with different faces from different eras. I think what you bought is cool in it's own right, even if nobody had ever put rally clocks on a dash before this one.

You got a link for a set?

Stan:

Yes, I got the fever real bad.

I agree with you 100%. I love our cars for what they are, not for what they are "supposed" to be.

But, you raise an interesting question. At what point in time does a "replica" stop being a "replica" and become an "original" in its own right? Originally, the Porsche 356 "replica" cars were made to look like and "replicate" the original 356's. However, while they looked similar, they were very different in many ways.

Over time these cars have evolved into something far more substantial and far beyond the "original" 356. We made it on to Jay Leno for Christ's sakes.

Take my car for example. It will look similar to a 1963 356 Coupe, but the body is approximately 2" longer. The Frame is a custom square tube steel frame. The suspension, brakes and steering are all light years beyond the "original." My car's engine/transmission is going to be a 6 cylinder/6 speed out of a modern, water cooled Porsche 911 with approximately 320HP. My car is no longer a "replica" 356, but something far superior to the "original" in every way.

I ordered my Rudenmeister's from GTS Classics. ClassicCarseats.com.

.

Dunno where Joel ordered from, but you can contact Rundenmeister directly and order here.

Here's their catalog.

Looks like a small operation (possibly just one guy), but he has some cool stuff.

I think this is a good choice, too. Original Heuers are out of sight and also 50-75 year old mechanical timepieces, so will be delicate and probably unreliable unless recently refurbi$hed.

Tag Heuer re-released some as limited editions a few years back, but at limited edition prices.

The Rundenmeisters have the look but are newly made. Don't know about the stopwatches, but their chronograph wristwatch probably has a Chinese Seagull movement, which is not a bad thing. The Chinese bought out all of the tooling from a famous Swiss watchmaker many years ago to make mechanical chronographs for the Chinese military and these movements are now in most mechanical chronographs under $1000, although Rundenmeister tiptoes around this point, calling them 'German' watches. Not an issue, though. The movements have a solid reputation.

It could be the stopwatches have entirely different movements than the Seagull, though.

In any case, I'd go with these without any regrets.

.

@Joel Roth posted:

At what point in time does a "replica" stop being a "replica" and become an "original" in its own right?

In my opinion, the thing takes on a life of it's own at the point where you stop caring what the original car had, and start caring about how to make this thing the best it can possibly be for your own application. That looks different for different people, which makes the plastic-car world a much, much more interesting place than either the "original" crowd, or those who would want to duplicate that aesthetic as closely as possible.

I've got zero beef with "replicas", but it's hard for me to refer to my car in that manner, as I'm not trying to ape anything.

If "bespoke coach-built" didn't sound so pretentious it might be how I'd refer to it. As I'll never be that guy, "clown car" is going to have to suffice.

Come on Stan, you are selling yourself and your car way short. Clown car? Never!

@Joel Roth posted:

Come on Stan, you are selling yourself and your car way short. Clown car? Never!

Just a suggestion, do a search on this site for "clown car." 😄

@Stan Galat posted:

In my opinion, the thing takes on a life of it's own at the point where you stop caring what the original car had, and start caring about how to make this thing the best it can possibly be for your own application. That looks different for different people, which makes the plastic-car world a much, much more interesting place than either the "original" crowd, or those who would want to duplicate that aesthetic as closely as possible.

I've got zero beef with "replicas", but it's hard for me to refer to my car in that manner, as I'm not trying to ape anything.

If "bespoke coach-built" didn't sound so pretentious it might be how I'd refer to it. As I'll never be that guy, "clown car" is going to have to suffice.

That right there. With my first car I tried to sit on the fence between "originality" and "don't care what you think, it's mine".

The second time around, I planned and plotted and ended up FIRMLY in the "don't care" vein. I also figured out that it really can't do many things WELL. Boulevard cruiser/interstate/autocross/track toy/mountain road slayer?

Pick ONE, and make it do THAT, but do it well. I picked the last one on my list.

.

'Replica' is probably a more useful term to explain to the guy at the gas pump what this is he just pulled up next to.

"Is that a '58?"

Well, no, it's a replica of a '58. He's now got a slot he can fit this into and he's happy.

For us, it's not so useful. We've all gotten these things for different reasons and have done different things with them. We can see and understand the differences, so this one blanket term has no real meaning.

But the guy at the gas pump is still happy.

.

For me... at the pump?... it's a '58.

"What is that?!?" - it's a '58.
"Yeahbut, a '58 what?!?" - a '58 Speedster
"Like a Porsche?!?"- sorta'
or, "I had a Karmann Ghia like that once!" - Excellent. Great cars.

KISS

Or,

"Is that real?"  Yes it is a real car!

"Is it a Kit Car?"  No it was built in a small factory in Southern California. I have no             business building a car myself.

" I ain't never seen a Porch like that in person?"  Well it isn't a Porch/Porsche, it just looks like one.

My "57" says right on the license plate FAUX-57. What I get at the gas pump is "What year is that?" and "Is that real?" I just roll with it. It's enough that people are excited to see it and it makes them smile.

On the very rare occasion someone will ask "Is that an Intermeccanica or Beck?" I confirm that it's an IM and show them the PCCA rally badge on the grill.

I am sorry, but I think you guys are making way (emphasis on the way) too big a deal over this.

Our cars are beautiful. They give us happiness and pleasure owning them, driving them and taking care of them. We love them. Who cares what other people think about them.

Sign takes the wind out of all the blowhards who feel it necessary to loudly proclaim to everyone within earshot how they can tell it's a fake.

When asked "Why a replica?"

My response..."They're kinda like breast implants. Everybody knows they're fake, yet they're still nice to look at and way more fun than the originals". - Musbjim, 25 year PCA member.

@MusbJim Well said!!!! Can’t argue with that!!

KISS

@MusbJim   ^ what you said!....among other things....jay has everything...but also knows what "kewl"....plus a sign allows you to look around and not have to explain to all... (unless you want to)....a wise person once said..."if you have to explain a joke, then it's not funny"

@Joel Roth posted:

I am sorry, but I think you guys are making way (emphasis on the way) too big a deal over this.

Our cars are beautiful. They give us happiness and pleasure owning them, driving them and taking care of them. We love them. Who cares what other people think about them.

Oh, I hear you, Joel. I really, really (really) don't care what other people think

... I just try not to be a jerk, and every mother's son wants to figure out a way to talk to you when you drive a speedster.

Every.

Last.

Mother's.

Son.

Gassing up. At stop lights. When your garage door is up. When your garage door is down, but they can see it up on the lift through the window in the garage door. When you're parked and inside having dinner. "What year is that?" "What IS that!?!" "I love your car!" "I just had to see who owns that beautiful car!" "Is that a Karmann Ghia?"

It's like what it must be like to be a pretty girl in a bar - guys just walk up, tongues hanging out, having ZERO idea what to say, but just wanting to say something. Anything. Just to stay in it's orbit for a minute or two before they head back to their "compromise-reality".

It's easy to be callous, but you have to give them something, or you're just that guy. You've got to commit to never be "that guy". I can't ever let myself be "that guy", even if that's how I'm wired, or if I'm having a bad day, or whatever.

"That guy" is a tool.

I try to be especially patient with kids and old men... and I'm an absolute sucker for people from the wrong side of the tracks - their awe of this thing is complete and unvarnished. I was a kid like that - I never thought I'd have a beautiful wife or a really nice ride or a big house with a lift in the garage... but I have all of them. The young kids dream, the old men remember, and the beat-down guys just ache for what might have been. They know, deep down in the soles of their sore and swollen feet, that they'll never, ever own something like this, and they just want to tell you how much they like it.

It's humbling, if you let yourself be humbled by it.

It engenders a ton of stupid questions, stupid observations, and no small difficulty if you just want to go about your life. But it's important to have something to give them, without getting into all of the nuances of what it replicates and the entire history of the air-cooled automobile in post-war Europe.

I give them short answers that aren't lies, but don't give away the farm. If a guy wants to talk more in depth, I try to make time.

You don't have your car yet, but I'm telling you what is coming, and it's BY FAR the hardest part of owning this sort of vehicle. The "P" car morons are just background noise. It's everybody else you need to have an answer for.

Forewarned is forearmed.

@Joel Roth posted:

I like my Rudenmeister's better. I just Ordered them. I will have the stopwatches way before the car.

I know the car in the auction is a "real" Porsche 356, but I have to tell you I like our cars much better. First, our cars cost far less. Second, think of how much money you would have to spend to bring the car in the auction up to the level of our car's fit and finish. Third, our car's performance and handling blow the "original" out of the water (no pun intended). Fourth, our cars accelerate, handle, and brake far better than the original ever could dream of, and we have real AC.

All things considered, I will take our cars hands down over the original.

And best of all, they don’t rust.

.

@Stan Galat posted:

.

...You don't have your car yet, but I'm telling you what is coming, and it's BY FAR the hardest part of owning this sort of vehicle...

It doesn't have to be the hardest part.

Some days, it can be the best part.

Sure, if you're in a hurry it can be a bother. If it's the third time today, it can get old. But we work on our techniques for slipping away gracefully. Like the Queen of England, we learn how to wave to the crowds.

Who knew a dumb car (a dumb, fake  car) would make me a celebrity?

I'm old enough to remember when these cars were just cars. No one noticed, or turned to look. They blended in better with the other rounded, swoopy cars of the day.

I'm still trying to figure out the magic draw of these cars today, though. If you show up in a brand new P-car, the little kids and grandads and soccer moms couldn't care less. In a Lambo or a Ferrari, you're that pretentious a-hole in the Lambo or the Ferrari.

Our cars aren't pretentious. They're like puppies. Everyone wants to pet them.

If you aren't married but want to be, you could do worse than drive one of these.

It really doesn't have to be the hardest part.

.

@Panhandle Bob posted:

"Is it a Kit Car?" No it was built in a small factory in Southern California. I have no             business building a car myself.

Neither did the guy who built my Spyder but that didn’t stop him.

I kid, I kid.

I agree with 100% with Stan I’ve had some really Nice cars Muscle Cars mainly but when I got my Speedster about 7yrs ago I had no idea how much attention it would bring everywhere I go it’s Crazy!!!! I would say 99.99% was Positive more than Positive!!

I remember the first time I took it to Easton in Columbus, Oh. It’s a outdoor shopping village with some nice restaurants. My wife and I were going to dinner we pull in to the Village one guys hanging out the back window of a Tahoe yelling and taking pictures. So anyways we pulled up to the restaurant valet they asked me if I could just park it out front In between a Lamborghini and Mercedes I said sure. Boy, I  wasn’t ready for all the attention and questions It was a little overwhelming! We sat at the Bar and had a drink waiting on our table we watched as all the people gathered around and started taking pictures with the Speedster and not the Lamborghini or the Mercedes. So yeah these little cars are Special!!!!

We went back to the same place I think 3 weeks later not in the Speedster walked in and one of the guys sitting at the Bar said to me aren’t you the guy with that 56 Speedster man I just Love that car of yours!!

So like Stan says it’s coming

90% of the time it's "What year is it?". I say 1956. "What make is it?", and I answer Porsche.

If there is a third question AND I have the time, I'll tell them it is a replica of a 1956 Porsche 550 Spyder. If they want more details, I'll fill them in, no problem. Maybe give them a Vintage Motorcars business card if they look somewhat serious and ask a LOT of questions.

Most times after the first two questions they're satisfied and we part ways.

My FAVORITE is "I used to own one of those". Yeah, right, genius. There were only 90 made. Like ever. Yeah, you, Mr. rusted-ass hooptie mini-van, owned a 550 Spyder.

"Yeah, I'm married to M-m-m-morgan Fairchild, yeah, that's the ticket" LOL!

My least favorite is the JD question(which you all know I hate).

Or "Is that a Becker?" Which is very funny, as it's wrong on more than one level, as Becker made RADIOS. SHTOOPID!

Women and children LOVE the car. White, jealous husbands/borfriends/guys are envious. Period. P-car owners CANNOT STAND that you're getting more attention with a "kit car". He he.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

.Our cars aren't pretentious. They're like puppies. Everyone wants to pet them.

They're EXACTLY like puppies.

They pee on your floor, cost a king's ransom to fix, and are generally pretty much a pain in the butt for the first year or so.

They cost way too much to buy, way too much to own, and cut way too big a swath in your life. There is no rational reason to own one, aside from wanting to. You find yourself making pretty significant decisions about things that would seem to be unrelated, based on their needs. Some people build special structures to house them. Some people take them to shows so other people can see how excellent they are.

Pedigree is important, but only to you and your weirdo puppy-people buddies (nobody else cares). You'll go to enthusiast-oriented websites to learn what other people know about them.

You either get it or you don't.

@Former Member posted:

I agree with 100% with Stan I’ve had some really Nice cars Muscle Cars mainly but when I got my Speedster about 7yrs ago I had no idea how much attention it would bring everywhere I go it’s Crazy!!!! I would say 99.99% was Positive more than Positive!!

I remember the first time I took it to Easton in Columbus, Oh. It’s a outdoor shopping village with some nice restaurants. My wife and I were going to dinner we pull in to the Village one guys hanging out the back window of a Tahoe yelling and taking pictures. So anyways we pulled up to the restaurant valet they asked me if I could just park it out front In between a Lamborghini and Mercedes I said sure. Boy, I  wasn’t ready for all the attention and questions It was a little overwhelming! We sat at the Bar and had a drink waiting on our table we watched as all the people gathered around and started taking pictures with the Speedster and not the Lamborghini or the Mercedes. So yeah these little cars are Special!!!!

We went back to the same place I think 3 weeks later not in the Speedster walked in and one of the guys sitting at the Bar said to me aren’t you the guy with that 56 Speedster man I just Love that car of yours!!

So like Stan says it’s coming

Pretty much what happened to me with my first IM, I wasn’t ready for it but realized how a beautiful women must feel at all the attention.  

I agree with Stan, even if I am pressed at times I try to be congenial but I keep my explanation short otherwise the time spent can be quite long. Most times this car brings smile

I want people to respect my IM for her (Speeduino) brains and not just because she's beautiful.

Hey, I had a "real" Porsche 911 4S. I loved it. Black on Black 6 speed. Dark tinted windows. It was my Darth Vader car. I put bigger and wider rims and tires on it. I put Euro springs in it to lower it. I put a Turbo tail on it. I put clear Euro side marker lights in it. I even bought a roll bar for it. The car drove like it was on rails. However, speed bumps were not my friends. I know what "real" is and I don't care. I want my Coupe. I can't wait. 

wow!...i LUV these kinda stories...it's the reason we enjoy this forum.....people sometimes ask me what it is about these cars....i have come up with a very generic answer...i say these are the precursor to the unmistakable 911....and are a very iconic shape which will never go out of style and is a shape that is very pleasing to the human eye...kinda like a shapely FEMALE FORM in silhouette,,,,,now that i have your attention...."time" for sumthin' completely different....time....see what did there?

.

@Joel Roth posted:

.

Hey, I had a "real" Porsche 911 4S. I loved it. Black on Black 6 speed. Dark tinted windows. It was my Darth Vader car. I put bigger and wider rims and tires on it. I put Euro springs in it to lower it. I put a Turbo tail on it...

But did it wag its tail every time you came home?

.

Okay, Stan and Mitch.

Speaking of puppies - and excuse more thread drift -  the newest member of our family... 

Not only did it wage its tail, it barked up and down the street every time we went for a run.

Cute. Border Collie?

@Joel Roth posted:

Cute. Border Collie?

Yep.  I'll have to train it to ride in the Speedster. 

You have to get him a leather helmet, goggles and a silk scarf.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Okay, Stan and Mitch.

Speaking of puppies - and excuse more thread drift -  the newest member of our family... 

What a ridiculously cute dog, Dr. Carley.

We had several "not very good" (not very well trained) dogs growing up. We never had time to spend with them, and it showed.

My son was mauled by a friend's German Shepard when Michael was 5, which kinda' soured me on owning a dog myself. Dogs are animals, not "fur babies", and as long as people remember that, I've got zero beef with them. Just remember 2 things:

1) They are a "pack" animal. They exist as part of a larger whole, and do not do well when denied social interaction. The more interaction the better. They need an alfa male to function well. Be that alfa male. If you are uncomfortable with that, your dog will behave erratically because he doesn't know his place in the world.

2) If you own a dog, you are the alfa. If you can't take the dog with your bare hands, you should treat it like a loaded weapon. Put your Rottweiler in a choke collar for a walk, unless you have the wherewithal to put the dog down if he moves aggressively on somebody.

Last dog comment: There's a wide variety of political opinion on this site, and I'd imagine there's a wide range of opinions on gun ownership and use. I'll say this - gun owners get their homes broken into all the time. People with dogs ALMOST NEVER get their homes broken into.

My two Jack Russells were polar opposites when riding in the Speedster.

Sophie would curl up on the passenger floor and go to sleep.

Murphy would stand up in the passenger seat and bark at any dog, cat, squirrel or person on the side of the road and then would look over at me like, "See?  Didn't I do a good job protecting you?"

One of my biker buddies has three top restaurants in Worcester and the valets always ask me to park out front near the door because they tell me they get better tips when I park out there.  I'm happy to oblige and they make sure no one messes with it.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Yep.  I'll have to train it to ride in the Speedster. 

That doesn't require training. It's the sitting in one spot and not drooling all over your beautiful car that requires training...

It's usually the same with retrieving. They KNOW how to do that instinctively. It's getting them to bring whatever to you and drop it for another go that requires training.

I'm in total agreement with Stan. I've trained two dogs. The first from a puppy, and the second was a year old. You've got to establish that Alpha thing.

Training - which means more than doing tricks - begins the moment we get the dog, which is today.  We have a full plan set out to establish a strong relationship, which then underpins everything else.  As Stan says, they are dogs, not 'fur babies', and need strong leadership and guidance, routine, discipline, and structure.  Fun comes along with all that.

The dog needs to know to be well mannered, obedient, and well socialized, and life is then good for both the dog and me, family members, and anyone who comes to visit.

I need to bring out all my latent, well hidden, Alpha male tendencies...

@DannyP posted:

That doesn't require training. It's the sitting in one spot and not drooling all over your beautiful car that requires training...

Both of our dogs regularly get rides in the speedster and they love it. Since I'm alpha, I hardly ever let them drive.

As @DannyP says, they've trained me to tolerate the drool marks down the passenger side door...

my ID photo is Gus, borderdoodle,moms border collie, dads a poodle, 1 brown eye 1 blue,,great dog......he's mommas boy, I use to be #1 here after momma, now Im #2 maybe lower..loves to ride in car

Is it maybe that the dog drinks a little less than you do, @barncobob ?

Joel, I let a buddy drive mine the other day and he is now seriously considering getting one similar to yours - 911 power, rear engine, etc.  I'm thinking Carey should give us a commission.  Whadaya think?

@Stan Galat wrote- " gun owners get their homes broken into all the time."

Being Canadian, I'm not quite as enamored about some American gun owners' enthusiasm for having a huge assortment of different firearms (and enough assorted ammo to withstand a full, sustained assault) but I do see the value of being able to protect yourself.  For example, your house does get broken into, you hear it, make your way downstairs undetected and put the barrel to the back of his head-

"So, I guess you're gonna call the cops now?"

"Yeah, about that.  Funny thing- nobody knows you're here, so..."

Man this thread has some drift.
In reference to guns. I don’t carry. But I do have a very nice collection including a 1936 Luger, a 1944 P38 and a 1944 Astra 600, all WW2 German weapons. I also have a loaded weapon on all 3 stories of my house. I shot expert with a 9 mm Beretta all 3 times I shot in the military. I range shoot with a different weapon once a month. It’s just a hobby. I love to shoot. And some of my weapons are just beautiful.
And if we are going to have a cute dog competition you guys don’t stand a chance.

A “cute dog” competition?  I’m in!

He is trying to get some dinner through sheer will…
I, too, own a few firearms.  Although I have yet to start the “collecting”!

Oh I'll bite

"And if we are going to have a cute dog competition you guys don’t stand a chance."

Don't be too sure, Phil.

Sorry for the drift, Joel.  It's kinda what we do here.

@550 Phil posted:

In reference to guns. I don’t carry. But I do have a very nice collection including a 1936 Luger, a 1944 P38 and a 1944 Astra 600, all WW2 German weapons.

And if we are going to have a cute dog competition you guys don’t stand a chance.

Phil, this isn't one of my dogs, but I thought it might give you some ideas.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Phil, this isn't one of my dogs, but I thought it might give you some ideas.

HA HA. That’s awesome 👏

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder Guys!!

@Former Member : that last picture is the best Mack truck hood ornament I’ve ever seen!

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Murphy's California, a few years back.

We are on one of our Speedster outings through the endless little forgotten gold rush towns of the Sierra foothills.

We wander into a little storefront wine tasting place (which has become a thing in towns such as this).

The premises seem deserted. There are glasses set out on the bar, but no barkeep. We harrumph, trying to make our presence known.

Then, this sleepy head pops up from behind the bar:

I guess you woulda hadda been there.

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Who’s cute?

And then there was Lucy, long gone, who shared her dad’s love of the open road.
But she couldn’t drive a stick  

Again, not mine, just one I saw in a Lowes parking lot

Our dog Mocha. Granddaughter Ada loves to dress her up

Princess Mocha obviously delighted with her life

@MikeM posted:

Who’s cute?

Milo is!

Thread has gone to the dog!

Cute schmute .... try and break in .... please

I absolutely MUST share this picture of my dogs.  I wish I could say it was staged, but these dogs are plain old goofballs.

My wife and I agree that this picture could be an album cover for a punk band in the 80’s…

@TheMayoMachine posted:

I absolutely MUST share this picture of my dogs.  I wish I could say it was staged, but these dogs are plain old goofballs.

My wife and I agree that this picture could be an album cover for a punk band in the 80’s…

I prefer the photo where they're stuck in the seats.

I had to dig into an old storage hard drive to get these pics. This is our Charlie. We got him at about a year old in 2017 as we were building the new Spyder. He continues to be a joy to us five years later.

In the first picture I'm wiring up the fuel pump and horn. That is until he plopped on top of me, totally getting in the way!

He even turns wrenches!(It's a rubber chew toy LOL)

@DannyP, I thought that was going to be a picture of you working on the rack and pinion setup!