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Joel’s car is definitely going to be a beast. And with the rear engine he will have considerable interior volume. My current Spyder is a beast with its 180-200 hp (who knows) Subaru engine. My first Spyder had a type 1 out back and it sure was nice to be able to put a six pack in the frunk. Not possible in the Subaru Spyder with that big radiator in the front. One of the main reasons I went with a type 4 in my Conv D build is the storage volume in the car. Usable frunk. Rear engine with voluminous interior volume. The Subaru and water cooled Porsche engines obviously add lots of advantages but they require a larger amount of plumbing and space in the car. Think I’m going to like the type 4. And if I want the hair on the back of my head to stand up I’ll hop in the Spyder.


@James posted:
. engineering brain always wrestles with the fact that friction is not dependent on surface area but dragsters always have wide tires...

As in most things, there's the world of the Physics textbook and there's the real world.

Real tires on a real car going down a real road is a much more complicated thing than the idealized frictional 'surface' in the texts - and not something I claim to understand very well.

I do know that racing cars (and even some street cars) routinely generate more than the theoretical max grip of 1 g  the books talk about.

A sticky tire sorta 'hooks up' with irregular paving, and how much can depend on lots of stuff, including the temperature of the rubber compound, which in turn will depend on how the tread is loaded, which can depend on the car's weight, suspension geometry, size of the contact patch, and so on and so on.

For a reliable explanation, I would look to a racing crew chief long before asking an engineer or, heaven help us, a Physicist.


@Stan Galat posted:

I'll see your superbly self-controlled hooliganism and raise you a hick-town, white-trash powerslide.

I chat up every cop that comes in the shop. There are a few that know me by name now and what I drive.

There is a new one that drives a maroon unmarked Challenger that's been haunting a piece of road that I drive daily. I need to meet him, but not in a blue-light-special kinda way.

@Stan Galat posted:

I'll see your superbly self-controlled hooliganism and raise you a hick-town, white-trash powerslide.

Don't forget with exhaust bypass WIDE OPEN!

I just call it 10/10ths when at the limit. Sometimes we get crazy and turn it up to 11 though.

My real hooliganism is revving it up to 4500 rpm and dumping the clutch, leaving two even stripes for as long as I'd care to, bumping repeatedly into the 6500 spark cut.

@Sacto Mitch Formula Vees with their smashing 58-60 hp and all-up weight of 1025 pounds routinely pull 1.5 to 1.7g on 5 to 5.5" wide slicks. Believe it or not, next year is the 60th Anniversary of the class.

I know Carlos posted this before, but it's appropriate:



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"@Stan Galat"

@Stan Galat

Can't give you more than one like on this one as we need a software upgrade

As to the IM-6 even the thickness of the square tube is increased so it is one of the most stable creations with a full 911 front and rear suspension and has the bigger trunk due to the new gas tank design.

Finally, I know of one IM unfortunately that flipped when the driver lost control in the rain and hit the curb and rolled or flipped.  It has an Audi 4cyl turbo boosted to 350hp.  

Yes he is back on the road and with a roll bar this time. It was a real blessing that he did not get hurt in the roll over.  It wasn't the size of the engine that did it, but I believe the engine power contributed to him losing rear traction and started the pendulum swigging as the rain reduced the traction he had on the road.  He then hit  the curb with the right front wheel and the car rolled over. BTW he broke the A-Arm.

I am not sure how much the engine being a few inches higher contributed to the flip.

Last edited by IaM-Ray

That engine is very heavy. I tried some spirited driving in the mountains only once in that car. Switched ends immediately. I hate looking straight back where I just came from. It was one of the things that sealed the deal for me and made me trade it in for another Spyder. My IM also had narrow rubber in the back that didn’t help. Before traction control the only thing Porsche could do to keep the 911 from switching ends was to put more rubber in the back. Obviously the Spyder is much more balanced and the limit for switching ends is much higher.

But remember Phil, the Spyder is almost impossible to catch when it does go(above 50). Low polar moment of inertia.

When you're screwing around in second gear, it's easy to provoke a slide and catch it.

The Cayman is the same way. I run that in autocross with traction control off, allowing me to squirt around the cones. The key to not swapping ends is SMOOTH, and not asking too much of the tires at any given time.

Rear engine cars merely give an earlier and much louder warning.

Latest Update from Carey:

They finished fabricating the exhaust. It is all fabricated and tacked together, including the body cut-out for the twin center mounted exhaust tips. They used a twin tip from Fabspeed and shortened/modified it to fit. It looks great. Now they will fabricate the heat shields and then pull the exhaust, do the final welds and then ship it out to be powder coatedExhaust.4Exhaust.1Exhaust.2.


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Years ago I bought a speedster out of Texas with a high output Type one engine that cost $14k alone and well in excess of 225 hp ( Nikasil's etc)  Stan was drooling for that engine..... When I finished the speedster is was insanely over powered, fun for the first day but for continual use  it would be work to drive ....Sure well like to get crazy fast now and then but at the end of the day we all want to come home.  BTW  a 2,000 speedster with 300 HP is a whopping 6.67 power to weight ratio ! Just my .02.

And I’ll toss my 2¢ in, too. A lot of guys I grew up with went into construction or computers. A few made a lot of money. I run into 2-3 of them occasionally at car shows. To a man, they all regret buying 427 Cobra replicas. (Kirkham Motorsports is here, a well known loval family) Mostly KMSes, but a few Factory Fives show up at the Ford show.

Too much power, tricky handling, make it a not so pleasant toy. One told me the only time he drove his was to a show and back.

Whatever you end up with Joel, I hope you love it. I’m sure Carey will make sure it’s a hell of a nice vehicle.

Wait to you guys see this.

I have a friend who lives in Brazil who is a Graphic Artist. He works for a car company doing Computer Generated Images (CGI). I gave him some pictures of my car and a list of the different components and specifications we are considering using on my car. He then created CGI images of what my car would look like. These are CGI images not pictures.

I asked him to do this to help me make decisions on the different components we are considering and to be able to visualize what the car could look like. Take a look and let me know what you guys think.





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Last edited by Joel Roth

Very nice, Joel. You should turn Carey and Greg on to your friend. A service like that would be invaluable to those in the “decisions, decisions” part of the build process.

When I did my Monster, the painter did a Photoshop for me that was pretty close, but nothing as nice as you CGIs. Little matter as I’d pretty much decided on the details prior.

Most of my decisions were dictated by the original single cylinder scramblers from BITD.


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Last edited by dlearl476

For me…this is the most beautiful car I have ever seen. And if you can reproduce the “duckbill” I think it would be awesome. I’d never try it on my Conv D but Joel I think your car could pull it off. It’s a replica. Who cares if you mesh 356 and the best 911 ever created…the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RSR  



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Last edited by 550 Phil

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