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I think what Joel is saying that he doesn’t want to do a Porsche replica without a Porsche engine and tranny. Obviously it doesn’t really make any sense. It’s still a replica aka clown car. But it’s ok. It’s just madness. And that’s what this site is all about. And I think I’m starting to agree. P replica with a P engine. That’s the ultimate. Go Joel. I think I’ve drank the koolaid. YES!  

@barncobob posted:

U said U had a Carrera 4S,,,what more could U ask for,,I had an 06 and it was killer...I dont get it

I guess it's ME that doesn't get it.

This is a 356 replica site. We like 356 replicas - it's why we're here. I guess I'm unclear what there is to "get" about wanting one with a Porsche engine. Everybody seems to "get" a replica with a Subaru engine.

If he wanted another Carrera 4S, he'd probably just buy another Carrera 4S. What he wants is something he can't get somewhere else. No argument can be made for it, other than that it's cool.

Over on BaT, there's a guy selling a 2012 Mustang with a bazillion dollars worth of metalwork done to make it look like a '69 Mustang. Lots of guys poo-poo that too, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

@550 Phil posted:

The main thing with Special Edition is the ECU mapping.  They use the ECU from a 2007 2.5 EJ Subaru engine.  So that year range (approximately) is the only Subaru engine they use.  I myself would love to use a different Subaru engine, maybe a turbo, but at this time its just not any option.  Carey uses the 1st generation watercooled 911 engine (1999-2003?) because they have figured out the ECU mapping.  Carey can correct me if I'm wrong and I apologize if I have said something incorrect or misstep.  The ECU setup and making it work with the radio, A/C etc.  is the big challenge.  I'm sure my explanation is elementary but that is my limited understanding.

I am aware of what ECUs Carey uses and why.

@Joel Roth I certainly hope you don't think I was picking on your engine choice. I applaud the use of whatever tickles your fancy. I certainly lean toward a flat German engine, air or watercooled, with whatever cylinder count you like.

I originally got a Spyder because I fell in love with the shape. I watched my buddies rebuild all manner of rusty steel 911s. I even had one for a while. But building a replica Spyder was awesome, it won't rust and every hole was drilled by me.

Anyway, my friend Jim says that I'm slowly building a 911...Fan and alternator, 4 wheel disks, dry sump, EFI. And soon, rack and pinion.

Last edited by DannyP

This is a site for people to express their thoughts, ideas and opinions. I take no offense at anyone doing that whether they agree or disagree with my choices, it's OK.

I did have a 4 S and loved it. But I sold it to get something more "practical" and bought a Mercedes CLS 550. I traded that in and now I have a Jaguar F-Type Coupe in Ultra Blue (Sort of like Mexico Blue in Porsche). I thought about buying a 911 Turbo. I also thought about buying a "real" 356. I loved the 356 Outlaw look and always wanted one. But a "real" one would not have the performance I was looking for. So, I decided to build a 356 "Replica" exactly how I wanted it. To me that meant having a Porsche engine and transmission.

Now you can question why if it's just a "Replica". And that's a fair question. However, to me I don't think of this car as a "Replica". I think of it as the 356 Outlaw I always wanted. It's my 356 Outlaw built how I want it. You don't have to agree with it, but it's what I want.

Now when it's done and you see it, then you can tell me if you like it or not and what you would do if it were your car and we can debate the pros and cons of the choices I made for my car. But I will tell you all now, it will be a bad ass and that's what I want.

Last edited by Joel Roth

"I totally agree with your approach, Joel. I think it's hard for most people to develop a solid vision of what they want in a replica, and for some folks, their vision changes over time."

You're right, @Michael Pickett.  It took me three previous IMs to finally get the one I wanted.

The issue was I didn't really know what I wanted at the start.

Joel seems to know exactly what he wants.

Mike, I love your car. It looks very similar to what I am doing. Of course, mine is a Coupe, but yours is a similar Silver exterior color. I am going with GT Silver Metalic and Black leather interior. Which Silver color is it? You have a mild Outlaw look: no bumpers, driving lights, and Fuchs. Mine will be a little more Outlaw look: no bumpers, driving lights and fog lights, no trunk handle, center mount fuel cap, stone guards on headlights, beehive taillights, dual stainless steel center exhaust with headers, roll bar, Monte Carlo style seats with grommets, black and white 911 style gauges, Fuchs and a few other items ...

What could be better, you have a Speedster in paradise?

Last edited by Joel Roth

I don't have time to go through a "reply" to all of the quandaries, but I'll shotgun some of the answers here:

We do a lot of aircooled 6 cylinder builds, almost exclusively in our 904GTS.  A good 993 donor motor today will run you $25-30K BEFORE being rebuilt.  This is the reason why we've been prototyping 986 and 996 drivetrains in a few different packages.

We do turbo Suby builds, probably 1 a year.  I've done them in everything but a coupe (yet). I don't like them as much as an NA build, simply due to the complications they add and the potential risks you run due to some of these complications.  There are many, but the biggest in my opinion, is the lack of airflow for a simple intercooler system.  Thus, it becomes a very complicated WAIC system (water to air intercooler for those who don't know).  The lifespan of your motor is heavily reliant on the functionality of this WAIC system and the loss of a coolant pump to this system is certain death for the motor in short order.

Yes, our plan with the M96 cars is at a minimum a full rebuild with IMS solution installed.  Joels will be done by LN Engineering directly.  A donor Boxster and a donor Subaru are about the same price.  The rebuild of an M96 is slightly more.  A full custom build of an M96 is exponentially more.  Doing a 996 (rear engine) will be slightly more expensive.  The donor car is more expensive for sure, but the rest of the build/rebuild will be about the same.  

CV angle in our 904 is the same as stock 911 and by measurement we'll be able to achieve this in the coupe.  If for some reason we have to deviate, I am very familiar with both high angle CVs as well as zero clearance CV boots.  All of which are available for Porsche race cars.

The great thing about a replica is that you can do whatever YOU want to it and you're not devaluing an original, plus you have a LOT more flexibility to customize.  I have a friend who commissioned a 993 powered original 356C coupe and he's well over $300K into the project, not including the cost of the "donor" car.  In addition, I'd guesstimate that 40% of the "chassis" (unibody) of the original car had to be cut away to make it happen.  No turning back and not much of a "real" 356 valuation left, other than the fact he has an original Porsche VIN and title.

@Joel Roth posted:

The same for you Bob. Your car is something special as well.

For all you guys with Intermeccanica's, what are the main differences between an Intermeccanica and a Beck Super Coupe?

Well, as I've never driven a Beck Super Coupe, I can't really say that much.  Carey makes a good car, and I have my opinions on Henry's builds, all super positive, of course.  Both makers have a long, solid history of quality products.  Henry does not built a coupe, so I think that is one major difference.

'nuff said from me.  I'm sure others may/will chime in.

I can say I would not trade my IM6 for any other make.

Last edited by Bob: IM S6

@Joel Roth, thanks, I shot it with Porsche Arctic Silver - 92U.

@chines1, we really appreciate your time responding to discussions in this community. I totally agree with your worries about water-to-air. I've built them, but never been happy with them.

If you've got the space, air-to-air has been much more reliable and of course NA has been the safest.

On our little cars, a 986/996 powerplant should be enough for most uses.

Thanks again!

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Well, as I've never driven a Beck Super Coupe, I can't really say that much.  Carey makes a good car, and I have my opinions on Henry's builds, all super positive, of course.  Both makers have a long, solid history of quality products.  Henry does not built a coupe, so I think that is one major difference.

'nuff said from me.  I'm sure others may/will chime in.

I can say I would not trade my IM6 for any other make.

I like this discussion because it points out that a true custom build requires a whole life experience to come together in your likes, dislikes culminating to a plan of action for a custom bespoked automobile.  We all know we are in the Duplication/Replica realms but it becomes your own creation, "Restomod" it may take you more than one try to get it "more right" or flush out the errors but as time goes on you will get closer to realizing what you want.  I wanted a coupe originally but at the time Henry was not building one and I did not know Carey, nor could we north of 49thparallel dwellers easily access the USA products.  At least not when I was building mine, so I had to buy pretty much from IM to get an experienced builder, and I am very happy with my car.

"For all you guys with Intermeccanica's, what are the main differences between an Intermeccanica and a Beck Super Coupe?"

IM's can be built with a 911 full front end and rear suspension with 3.6L 6cyl.

My car was the first full subie built by Henry.  A 4cyl 2.5L EJ, N/A  5 speed R&P reversed tranny and it has dual rads behind each light.  This, with the new gas tank we designed enabled the full front of the car to be used as a full larger trunk @Dave Mitchell.  BTW, My rear suspension is a Type I trailing arm and for those guys who must, an early 944  Essentially,  IM builds a beam base model to full 911 using  P infrastructure essentially.



The SCoupe is for sure a new complete engineering accomplishment for Carey and his guys  and a modern suspension which will allow them do offer I would think a more consistent platform for their builds.  I am following the evolotion of their cars with interest but as of yet I have not driven one

I agree that having Carey comment on the forum, is certainly adding tremendously to this forum !  

Joel hope this helps to clarify our northern resident builder, and best of luck working up your build sheet for your car.  

Ray

P.S. Next year in Carlisle we should have a Special Edition Manufacturer's award given to Carey for all his generous support of our hobby !  

Last edited by IaM-Ray
@Stan Galat posted:

I guess it's ME that doesn't get it.

This is a 356 replica site. We like 356 replicas - it's why we're here. I guess I'm unclear what there is to "get" about wanting one with a Porsche engine. Everybody seems to "get" a replica with a Subaru engine.

If he wanted another Carrera 4S, he'd probably just buy another Carrera 4S. What he wants is something he can't get somewhere else. No argument can be made for it, other than that it's cool.

Over on BaT, there's a guy selling a 2012 Mustang with a bazillion dollars worth of metalwork done to make it look like a '69 Mustang. Lots of guys poo-poo that too, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

It seems obvious to me that the 911 shape is nice but the newer cars are just not visceral enough nor do they eclipse the 356 shape.  

Maybe Boring is the right term at least that is what comes to mind for me as I went to buy a new one and well walked out disappointed.  Quoting Jay: ..."Click click click and your doing 100mph, what is the fun in that"  

A friend who has a lot of supercars, tracks them... finally got a helicopter

Joel wrote: "Now when it's done and you see it, then you can tell me if you like it or not and what you would do if it were your car and we can debate the pros and cons of the choices I made for my car. But I will tell you all now, it will be a bad ass and that's what I want."

@Joel Roth My only suggestion is something you're already doing:

You be you.  

When I was building my Speedster way back in the 1990's this forum didn't exist.  All I found was an email list with people from the New jersey Replicar Club and another few guys from the Philadelphia and DC area who were building all sorts of replica cars (many Fierro based) and I used them for guidance on the mechanical stuff (I had the CMC build manual as a guide, too).

My older brother's friends all had 356s in the mid-late 1960's.  Mostly sleepers - Cars that looked ordinary with engines way beyond super 90s and a couple of modified 4-cams in a '62 and '63 coupe.  Everyone in that group added fog/driving light combos, enhanced suspensions, better brakes, better seats and on and on, but few changes to the outside.  

When I was building mine, THAT is what I had in mind, so that's how it has turned out.  I knew I wanted a 356 Hot rod (I come from a flathead Hot Rod background) and was cheap enough that the shaved hood handle and deleted bumpers and emblems just made $$ sense.  

I didn't have the background noise of social media people telling me to do it this way or that way so I did it MY way and I love it.  

I used (gasp!)  Pearlescent Metallic paint - and cream white, even - from an Audi!  

I used (Gasp!) bucket seats out of Chrysler LeBaron (They won't even fit!)  

I run (GASP!) 1-1/4" thick wheel spacer adapters! (They're gonna wreck your wheel bearings!)  

I installed an antique VW Gas heater (It's gonna go up in flames!)  

None of that stuff happened and the car reflects my idea of how it should look.

Three of my brother's old friends have seen and driven my car and all of them said I more than nailed it, especially on the performance end.  They have all had Porsches since the '60's and one was the service manager at Al Alden's Porsche/Audi in White River Junction, Vermont for 36 years so I value his input.  He loves it.

So it doesn't matter what I/we think til it's done and, even then, it's your car.

So build us something interesting with your twists on it.  I'm sure it's gonna blow our sox off!  Build something "Bad-Ass" like mine and MUSBJIM's and a growing number of others and you'll be part of the "Bad-Ass Club", too.

IMG_2741

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@DannyP posted:

The Subaru EJ-33 is 230 hp with the factory ECU, but they haven't been made since the early 1990s.

The EZ30 came up in 1999 and was 220hp. Later they made a 3.6 liter version called the EZ36 which had 260 hp. These last two engines have variable valve timing.

The Subaru engines are pretty short and should fit where a 4 goes. I know for a fact the EJ33 fits in a Vanagon engine bay(designed for a 4 cylinder watercooled) with no problem at all. I don't think the EZ series is any longer than the EJ33.

I'm sure they're ALL cheaper than the Porsche engines. Honestly, it's a replica. Does it really matter what brand engine you use?

Stan: Overengineered? Not me! Not you!

I was thinking of doing an EZ-30 or EZ-33 instead of the 4cyl when I was building, as I did not want a turbo 4cyl,  but IM was relunctant at the time.  

It might have been a good way to get more torque and hp NA.  

BTW Last time I checked, it was at most 2inch wider and 2 inch longer but slightly higher...  the 3.0 was 58lbs more, minus the turbo parts your pretty close.

@IaM-Ray posted:

It seems obvious to me that the 911 shape is nice but the newer cars are just not visceral enough nor do they eclipse the 356 shape.  

Maybe Boring is the right term at least that is what comes to mind for me as I went to buy a new one and well walked out disappointed.  Quoting Jay: ..."Click click click and your doing 100mph, what is the fun in that"  

A friend who has a lot of supercars, tracks them... finally got a helicopter

Maybe the new ones. Certainly not a 2007 6 speed plain-old manual trans in a sexy body with a switch to TURN OFF traction control. Very visceral experience if you ask me.

Two days of running Watkins Glen hooked me, but good. Having the back end step out a bit over 100 mph will wake you up.

Throw the same car around the autocross course getting totally sideways in second gear? FUN FUN FUN!

Dual clutch paddle shifting? Nah. Rev-matching down shifts? Nope. That would be boring.

Last edited by DannyP
@Joel Roth posted:

New question:

Has anyone painted their car in Porsche Miami Blue or Mexico Blue? I would love to see how they look?

Very bold colors.  And the Miami has a little green in it too. I think it would look good with the right interior.  The president of Stanistan likes to stick to the more serious colors, but coloring outside the lines can be fun. @Lane Anderson do you have any pictures of Tom Raymonds car?

https://youtu.be/HJkM1d9PC0U

Last edited by Marty Grzynkowicz

Very bold colors.  And the Miami has a little green in it too. I think it would look good with the right interior.  The president of Stanistan likes to stick to the more serious colors, but coloring outside the lines can be fun. @Lane Anderson do you have any pictures of Tom Raymonds car?

https://youtu.be/HJkM1d9PC0U

Yup.  Here it is from 2008.

DSC_0003

Joel, your picture looks like Sky Blue, which was a '64-'65 color, I believe.  I considered it strongly before I decided to go a bit darker.  It's nice.

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Last edited by Lane Anderson

Joel,

Above all, you do you.

I'm a fan of getting input from people who know their way around these cars, but there are limits to what it's a good idea to ask about. When it gets into color selection, it's an intensely personal thing. I didn't check with anybody else before asking my wife out for the first time, nor did I consult my friends when I asked her to marry me. Color is a lot like that - you either love it or you don't.

That being said, colors are trendy. Blues are super hot right now, which would worry me. Did you always like blue, or just recently? Because if this is a recent thing, then you can just as easily fall out of love as you fell in it, and a color-change down the road is an expensive thing.

As @Marty Grzynkowicz alluded, I'm a fan of more "serious" colors on litte-bitty cars. The scale of these cars is tiny, and painting them in pastel colors makes them look doubly toy-like - like a plastic Easter Egg with wheels, helmed by fuzzy bunny with a white basket. There are no shortage of guys who love Meissen Blau, but the cars I've seen in that color always look like they came from a Malibu Barbie playset. You better have a strong sense of your own masculinity, or just go with it and get a ruffly pink ascot.

I'm not saying either of the blues you are looking at are that effeminate, but keep in mind that the scale of the car make it hard for people to take it seriously as an automobile (as opposed to a clown car). We live in an age where even a Toyota Corolla has a snarly grill with snake-eye headlights, and people who buy them often opt for black paint with tinted windows.

I'm a fan of silvers, blacks, and putty-hues. I'm not a flamboyant guy - the most colorful clothing I own is an orange tee-shirt I got in the Cozumel airport 10 years ago, long since faded by years of wearing it to mow the lawn.

Assess yourself, and what you really like (in the absence of what other people are doing). Marry the girl you want, not the ones your friends think is cute.

You do you.

I hear you. Blue happens to be one of my favorite colors. I know that a light Blue (Sky Blue/Speedster Blue) color was a color on the early 356's. So, to me it is a "serious" color.

That said, my current car is a 2020 Jaguar F-Type in Ultra Blue (very similar to Mexico Blue) so yes, I like Blue. Mexico Blue is not a pastel color. I think it has a strong presence. Especially, when you accent it with Black wheels, mirrors, and interior. Plus, on an Outlaw style Coupe I think is will have a very strong presence.

Last edited by Joel Roth
@chines1 posted:

While I agree with Stan on the trend of blue lately, I have been a fan of the bright and odd blues as long as I can remember. Mexico, Aquamarine, Himmel, Miami, etc... I don't see them as Barbie, I see them as different, eye catching, but as Stan also alluded to, color is in the eye of the beholder.

The more gray that's in the blue, the better it looks (at least to me). I've got a '64 panel bus that's painted a dove blue, and I really like it - especially with a grayish sand-cast style aluminum wheel.

Marty put up a blue he was considering for his Alfa that was gorgeous - a somewhat deeper color lots of gray undertones. It was a blue even I might consider (but not for an Alfa, @Marty Grzynkowicz).

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