Upgrading from 1776 to 2110?

My suggestion: Change out the cylinders to 94mm.

Get the barrel bases machined down to the 90.5/92mm register size. You can do this, I'm building a 2276(94 x 82) this way that was a 2213(90.5 x 86 stroke). The barrel bases are thin, and can easily be cracked so be careful.

You'll have to get the heads opened up for 94mm but no big deal. I think a 1915(94 x 69) with the cam, rockers, exhaust, and TBs you have would be right at the limit of your exhaust. 120-125 hp, and a NICE upgrade. You probably don't even have to split the case if you do it my way...

A 2110 would probably get choked by that exhaust. But if you must keep it, build a 1915. The cylinders(Mahle please not AA) will easily last 40,000 miles. Is that enough longevity for you?

40,000 miles longevity would be fine. I'm going to split the case anyway at some point to reseat the oil pickup tube. Definitely Mahles.

If you do end up stroking your motor, pay attention to rod length. Stock rods are 5.394" for use with the 69mm stroke. A 78mm stroke usually uses a 5.4 rod, and an 82mm stroke usually uses 5.5 rods. These last two will require cylinder spacers unless you get uncut barrels. But that always seems to be too difficult and complicated.

Make sure you get "B" pistons, the cylinders are all the same.

FYI, Scat still makes machined spacers. I believe they are one of the only ones that still make them. I ordered some stuff(spacers and piston rings) from them recently and I wish I had sooner. They are really good on the phone. Yes, you CAN talk to a person!

If you do split the case, you can do anything you want. You could get a more aggressive cam. Make sure you mark the lifters and return them to the same position IF you re-use the cam and lifters. ALWAYS replace them both if you replace the cam.

You can just get the case opened for the 94mm barrels, since you're splitting it. If the oil pickup is loose, you can clean up all the oil and JB Weld it in place, and peen the case with a ball-peen hammer around the pickup tube. Sometimes the case has a sloppy fit around the oil pump, and a shmeer of Permatex Aviation case sealant around the pump suction hole might be all you need.

When you get the heads flycut for the 94 barrels, pay attention to two things: parallel of cylinder sealing areas and combustion chamber volume. You may want to reduce the chamber size and up the compression depending on the cam/lifter combo you have. Compression ratio of 9:1 static would be a MINIMUM for me, especially since you have EFI and it will never go lean.

I'll post photos later of the 94mm barrel spigot uncut and cut, maybe that will help you make your decision there.

Above all, take your time(I know you do!), mock it up a few times, and have fun.

You can definitely use stock length rods with an 82 mm crank, and indeed I like the combination better than with 5.5 rods (it's snappier). My 2276 had (and will have, on Project X) stock-length rods. My 2234 (92 mm x 84 mm) has stock-length rods with an 84 mm stroke (which is about the limit). I'm a short-rod fan-boy, and you already have the stock-length rods and pistons and rings that are working for you.

It's super-easy to undergo the "while I'm in here" thoughts, but I'd resist. Well... I wouldn't resist, but a smarter man (like yourself) should. Opening an engine up is an invitation to replace nearly everything, and thar be dragons thar. Resist, and you can take a nice vacation with your wife to.... um.... Maui. So, forget it - change EVERYTHING! Get a 82B cam and some Carrillo rods. JPM makes some killer 94 cylinders out of some super-iron that stays round, and he sells some nice custom JE gas ported pistons and rings. That should only be about $5000- $7000 extra.

... which explains why I'm still working and all the rest of you are retired. That, and my newfound tendency to be a one man urban renewal plan for Morton, IL. Don't be like Stupid Stan. Do the sensible thing.

You should change the cam, however, for a W120 or the Web equivalent. IMHO, a 2110 with a W120 and about 9:1 CR is the sweet-spot for these cars, and it allows you to just reuse your rockers. It's pure Goldilocks: not too hot, not too cool, not to hard, not too soft.

The Vintage Speed exhaust might be what I'd change, but you can do that at any point now or later. If you do change it, I'd get a 1-5/8" sidewinder and some matching heater boxes (if you want to retain heat).

This is a subject I usually like to give my 1½ (Canadian) cents on, so here it is-

Upgrading to 94's, which does work, is a lot of work for not necessarily a lot of gain.  For someone's first major engine project I'd say go for it (great experience) but I know you're waayyy beyond that.  Lots of people have used the 94's with the bottoms of the barrels thinned down to fit in the 90.5/92 case register, and as Danny said, you just have to be careful to not damage the cylinder bottoms.

I like the idea of splitting the case, since it will be out of the car and you already have the heads and induction to make it make some fairly serious power with significantly more displacement, a 2110 is pretty easy to do.  A hone on the barrels (provided there is a local machine shop) , new rings and away you go.  You could use the rods you have- 82 mm cranks with either 5.394 or 5.4" rods have proven to be a great combination and should come out to very close to stock width, requiring minimum shimming, and with the W110 and adding 1.25 rockers it'll be a torque monster!

At that rod ratio (1.68) the pistons won't last forever, but you're not worried about that.  If you go with Danny's route (5.5" rods) it only changes the rod ratio to 1.71 so either way works.  It'll go to 5800 or close to 6,000 rpm with power and be killer!

Or- leave the short block alone, sell it or put some ported stock valve heads on it and put it under the bench.  Since you're buying the stroker crank, start with a new case, 94's, an 86B or CB2288 (and 1.4's of course!), and with the Panchitos and a 1 5/8" Sidewinder it'll be a monster!  The only issue with be the combustion chambers- you'll need 58-60 cc's to make it work with .040-.050" deck height.  What's the cc's in the heads now?

Hope this helps, Mike (or did I just muddle it up even more?)-  Al

PS- I left the FK8 out of the recipe because Engle's cams haven't had the best specs lately- better to go with something that's a little closer to what they say it is.

Oh- and my apologies for the sinceitsapartitis- I have it bad!

You might include this item also

Mike it's running good, right?

The absolute worst thing you could do is leave it alone and just drive it around Maui like a compleate idiut. Buy all means, pull that engine out, tear it down and get to work!

I vote for a "Monster Type IV" with about 3 liters' displacement. Should be able to do that over the winter...during the off season.

.

I was thinking somewhat along the lines of Ed's wise counsel.

Now that you've got the thing running smoothly from sea level up to the lower levels of the stratosphere, you must be bored silly.

You need some serious power to eat up those endless straight, flat, and featureless stretches of Maui's long-distance highway network.

.

@edsnova posted:

Mike it's running good, right?

The absolute worst thing you could do is leave it alone and just drive it around Maui like a compleate idiut. Buy all means, pull that engine out, tear it down and get to work!

I vote for a "Monster Type IV" with about 3 liters' displacement. Should be able to do that over the winter...during the off season.

Is there an “off season” in HI?

@dlearl476 posted:

Is there an “off season” in HI?

February 23 - February 27 there's a chance of rain... 🙂

Thanks for all of the great advice. I'm going to absorb it, check the options against my budget (how much before Marianne notices that something is up) and try not to overbuild. I kept up just fine with the old targa and wasn't totally left in the dust by the 930 so I don't want to get crazy (again). I'll post back on my thinking for your feedback.

Thanks so much again!

With an 82 crank, I think there is no choice about splitting the case.  The case will have to be clearanced for the crank.

Michael is correct, there is work to do inside the case when running anything more than a 76mm stroke.

It truly would be easier to buy a new case already clearanced and opened for 94mm barrels. But you'd have to Hoover mod it all over again. FYI, Scat lube-a-lobe lifters have a camshaft lubricating spray hole in the middle, and have very WIDE oil grooves instead of the usual two narrow VW grooves. They are recommended for Webcam cams. I was unable to drill the case I'm working on, there wasn't enough material to drill the extra oil gallery.

Unlike Stan, I like a longer rod(LOL!). My 78 stroke 2165 has a 5.4" rod, but the 2276 I'm building has 5.5" rods.

The 94mm cylinders require about a .020" cut which makes them 0.040" smaller in diameter to fit into the 90.5/92 case hole.

That uncut cylinder came damaged, it has a crack in the skirt from inadequate packing. I've already gotten the new cylinder, got it machined, and have now built the long block.

Patience with parts is needed today, I tore this motor down in January, and I'm close to finishing now, six months later.

Ok, I'm going to be the lone voice crying out in the wilderness and say WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!!  You live in Paradise and have a spectacular car in which to enjoy it.  Please drive it!

Build the hot motor separately while driving the car.  You can swap it out over the weekend and sell the old motor to cover expenses AFTER you've sorted the new engine.

End rant.  We now return to our regularly schedule programming.

Gentlemen,

You're making the mistake of underestimating Mike. He built the 1776. He did the freaking Hoover mods on it himself. He knows what he's getting into. I've always been a giant fan of starting over, but I can see the wisdom of just making this one bigger, assuming he can do it without machine work or a lot of clearancing.

I've got two question for the Maestro, @Michael Pickett

1. Did you buy a super-case for the original engine?
2. Talk to me about the rod journals your 69 mm crank. VW or Chevy journals?

If Mike has a super-case - he can reuse everything he's got, except for the crank and cam, without any machine work on the case. If the case isn't pre-clearanced, and the connecting rods are VW sized... I'd start over.

Again, for the kids from Pekin - the 2110 with a W120-like cam is the absolute sweet-spot for these cars. They run cool, they run forever, and they make good power. They're just more of what makes a 1776 a sweet little engine.

As it turns out, they are about 19% more. That's a significant amount of "more" for pretty short money.

I have absolutely no doubt Mike can do this. If the case is clearanced, rock on. But if it's not, there's quite a bit to remove to fit an 82mm, even with smaller(Chevy 2") journals.

If you do end up with an 86b Webcam do me a favor: Use 1.5 rockers and CRANK the compression up. I'm at 10.2:1 with absolutely no overheating, pinging, etc...

The 86b LOVES lift and compression.

What I lack in skill and knowledge, I make up in recklessness (and a willingness to try again). Some answers:

- Not a super-case. It's an AJ-144762

- VW journals

My first instinct was to just build another engine while driving the 1776 (ala @Lane Anderson).  Any thoughts on the virtues of the CBP 2110 builder's choice engine kit?

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1183.htm

Or, picking and choosing parts from a variety of sources?

Stan, sounds like a preference for Chevy journals?

The 86b is nice, but I'd not use that much cam in this engine.

Pat Downs told me (and the numbers bear out), "there's no point in lifting Panchito valves over .500". It's super-tough to get a long duration cam that doesn't lift over .550", even with "1.4s" (which often measure close to 1.5:1). It's not just big compression and big lift that the 86b likes -  it's big heads as well. What you are proposing seems (to me, anyhow) like a bit too much of everything for a 2110 with Panchitos.

... unless he ran it with the 1.25 rockers he's got. @Robert M has a Pat Downs 2180 (I think) that uses a big CB cam (a 2292, if I'm not mistaken), Panchitos, and 1.25 rockers. He also runs a Vintage Speed exhaust, and the engine made nice power in a pretty hot climate. With a cam that big, it's going to need about 10:1 compression, which may mean fly-cutting the heads.

It just starts to get spendy pretty quickly, and the more stuff you change, the closer you get to just starting over. I think Mike wants to keep from starting over.

If I was trying to stay on the sane side of the street, I'd stick with the 1.25s and get a nice cam with gentler ramps, but with enough duration to have some punch. Type 1s like duration, assuming they have the flow to support it. A W120 doesn't run out of gas until 6500- 7000 RPM, and is pretty easy on the lifter bores and cam lobes. Running the CB duals is fine, there's no need for 650 springs and all the attendant issues that go along with them. I'd run duals even with the W120 - I tried it with HD singles, and broke one.

You can run CB lightweight lifters with a Web cam, as long as it's ground on an EP12 blank.

No matter what, I'm interested in seeing what happens. It's super-fun to spend other people's money.