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@Foleydb posted:

It appears Vintage has just raised their prices for new cars at least $10K!?

https://www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com/turnkey-less/

The increase was not $10K.  It went from approximately $39,900 to $43,500 for Speedsters.  I don't know about Spyders, but I suspect they have also increased.

You probably didn't noticed that there was a price increase earlier this year from the $35,500 range to $39,900.  That was also when the build time increased from 5 months to 12 months.

The good news, for all of you who already own a Speedster, is that your Speedster is worth more than you paid for it.

Like someone said...."They are rolling 401K plans!"

Last edited by Troy Sloan
@Troy Sloan posted:

The increase was not $10K.  It went from approximately $39,900 to $43,500 for Speedsters.  I don't know about Spyders, but I suspect they have also increased.

You probably didn't noticed that there was a price increase earlier this year from the $35,500 range to $39,900.  That was also when the build time increased from 5 months to 12 months.

The Spyder base price for a water-cooled Vintage Spyder, which is the link I posted originally here in the Spyder forum, is now $64,900, before even the most basic of extras. I'm pretty sure it was more than $10K less than that a couple days ago. I know because I priced both Vintage and Beck Spyders before ordering mine 2 months ago.

The way I think about it, FWIW, when a builder agrees to build a car at a set price, the builder needs to make some assumptions about the future costs of materials that are not yet in inventory, subcontracted work not yet contracted, and labor and overhead costs over the life of the build.

If a car can be built in 4 months, future cost estimates carry relatively low risk (I assume).  When lead times increase to 12 months (or longer!), the risk increases.  This is certainly true now as it appears inflation may be heating up.  So perhaps part of the price increase is a simple assumption the builder is making about escalating future costs.  Sure supply and demand may allow the builder to charge a premium, but I don’t think that explains all of the increases we’re seeing.  

To say more about labor, consider how many industries are struggling to hire sufficient workforce.  Supply/demand rule suggests future wages may need to increase, which raises builder’s future cost, and clearly a builder who likes to stay in the black needs to pass these escalating costs to the consumer.

Hand-built cars folks.  Let’s just hope the demand is there when any of us are ready to sell.

Jon

I’m onboard with supply and demand and market prices. I’m just noting what I thought was an interesting development for the community. My car is coming from Beck, not Vintage, so it doesn’t affect me.

I know Carey has mentioned efforts to expand the size of his production facility, which is understandable given the 24-28 month delivery time for new orders. I believe the new law allows 250 cars per year from small builders, but quality control is essential obviously, and knowing that you have orders for the next two years of work must be a comfort for him and his staff.

As an avid collector of many items that suffer from market bubbles and fatigue I've seen this same sentiment on all of my regular collector/builder websites as of late. As stated earlier Inflation, shaky resource markets for the manufacturers, supply/demand, pop culture trending (ie: everything Porsche has gone through the roof, my 68 911 SWB Coupe is literally worth $40k more now than 12 months ago) are all good for us in general as it raises the "floor" on the worth of our cars and as real PCars are heading into funny money where OG 550's are $5-6M Singer/Emory builds are $1M plus, 914-6's for 120K+, hell I even saw a $85K 914 get sold a few weeks back it can only benefit us until the market bubble resets.

As for  our "market" I'm not sure if any of you collect watches but Rolex is experiencing the same thing as Porsche and variants. Production numbers are low and waitlists are long (1-3years) so if you want one now you pay the premium on the grey market. That grey market drives up the costs for the everyday dudes like us which is good if you already own, sucks if you're just now getting into the market as the barrier for entry is higher thus more risk.

I'm sure like many of you I'm not in this for the ROI necessarily and as with all things that catch fire eventually the true enthusiasts get kind of cut out which is a real bummer. This happened to me in the hot rod space (1930-36 Fords) not too far back as well as well and to combat price gouging and try our part to slow the "grey market" a large group of us would barter and trade builds and services to keep our costs low and let the people who were in the moment do their own thing. I've even done under market agreed upon value first right of refusal sales to keep cars in the hands of people who will truly enjoy the car. Its not a perfect science but its also kind of goes with this crazy thing we do right?

Just think of it this way.... You were trendsetters and market makers

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