Vintage Speedster experience

What I can't, for the life of me, figure out is why Kirk doesn't thoroughly sort his cars out BEFORE he ships them to the new owners.

I agree, Ron. It would cost less (and put more money in his pocket) in the long run.

Oughta hire one of you experienced Cali guys to put 150 miles on every car and then hand it back with a list of problems to be rectified.

There shouldn't be problems in the first place.  These guys are experienced builders - they should know what to look for when building the car, and then before handing the car over to the new owner.

 

Bob: IM S6 posted:

There shouldn't be problems in the first place.  These guys are experienced builders - they should know what to look for when building the car, and then before handing the car over to the new owner.

Yeah, except that there's not a lot of motivation when the market resolutely refuses to penalize him. Apparently, the demand for $30k speedsters with "issues" (as opposed to $40k-60k cars without) exceeds the supply.

Knowing that, I'd continue to advocate for a car from Alan or Troy, or a roller from Vintage, with running gear from a reputable vendor. A SoCal "buyers agent"  would be an excellent service for some retired dude  to provide for $500-$1000.  If I lived down there, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Talk about an easy gig!

After our experience with Kirk, I've talked to several of you who choose to remain anonymous (which I respect) and the consensus is, that he makes enough money on each car to eat $5K every once in a while and still operate (very) successfully.

It's not the business model I have chosen, but obviously it's been working for quite some time so as the old adage goes: If it ain't broke, why fix it?

I agree with Ron O, Bob G, and every one who sees a glaring lack of quality control at Vintage. Several years ago when that sweet, innocent, thing (I've forgotten her name) took delivery of a brand-new VS speedster, that from day one was a nightmarish headache, it was pointed out that all that angst could be avoided IF Kirk had a Q&C column on his build sheet for each component that HAD to be inspected, tested, checked off and initialed by someone within his organization. How difficult could that have been?

Anabel?

Annaliese, I think!

I had a top I ordered and the forward edge was cut so I had 3" overhang in the center and a 1/2" short on the ends, also the flaps for the side curtains where sewn about 5" to short leaving it hanging and flapping in the wind...sent it back and he added some material (so I have a seam over the windshield bow) and did nothing to fix the hanging side curtain flaps and sent it back out to me.

Really disappointing considering I spent another $30.00 in shipping for half a$$ed job.

I would never order a car from them! 

I agree that VS should provide a product that has been thoroughly checked out, and they don't.  However, in some cases, such as Annaliese mentioned above, how can you build a product that's stupid-proof?  If you guys recall, she said that she was in the car loop, since Dad was a hot rod guy.  Even with that background, she asked the group how to open the engine deck lid, since she didn't know how.

This was after putting 600 miles on a new engine.  Not only hadn't she changed the oil, she hadn't even checked it!  No mystery that her engine grenaded.  At least, that's what my memory tells me,

Yes Jim, you're right, and yes, JKelly....I now recall that Annaliese was naive. The only positive result of her brief fling with the VS is that it cured her dose of 'madness'!!! 

If I remember correctly she's now enjoying care free top-down cruising in sunny California behind the wheel of a reliable Miata...whose hubcaps don't fall off!

@WOMBAT - Any chance you could post a comprehensive list of things that needed to be fixed when you got your car? Establishing a list of common oversights might help the next buyer who's doing a little research on Vintage Speedsters and buys one.

BobG posted:

Oughta hire one of you experienced Cali guys to put 150 miles on every car and then hand it back with a list of problems to be rectified.

I'm your huckleberry!

All I can say is that the people on this site are stand-up people, willing to help and give support! Kudos to you all. Alan, Troy, Theron just to name a few... I hope to get to know more of you ��

Many non car guys, who envision themselves cruising down the highway in their beautiful, new replica speedster quickly come to realize they have bitten off more than they can chew.

Some find a really good mechanic that understands their cars.  Others take on the challenge and learn how to fix their cars, while others decide that their little dream machine is not worth the hassle.

That, I think, is why we see so many low mileage speedsters for sale.

Id still have my speedster 2232 if it weren't for Webers, if I ever get another itll have a Subie or equivalent

      It would be easy to make a check list to correct things. I think the problem is he is just burned out. I also feel that although he is making a living, I don't think he is getting rich off it. My car was sent out with splatters of super glue all over one of the seats. It was bad enough that you could see it in the photos he sent me before it was shipped.  How could this happen?  He had to pay to ship the seat both ways and get a new cover put on it.  Then there was my hassle to remove the damn seat and pack it.

     I don't believe anything will change as long as they are selling as many cars as they are.  You have to ask yourself, if they are nice when delivered why does the guy in Atlanta have the cars shipped with emblems loose and hire a guy to completely color sand and polish all the cars he gets.  This is in addition to wiring woes and loose screws and bolts. I'll admit I'm completely OCD about my cars and spent about 100 hours changing things from front to back. Things which would have been OK but I didn't like the way they looked.

     Then there is the battery hot cable to the starter going through 4 layers of steel in the pan in jagged drilled holes without grommets.  No wonder there is so much talk of fire suppression systems.  When you get one of these, if not able to do it themselves, every one needs to have a good car guy friend go over the car and check things out.  That would save a lot of heartache.

 

Its like what I say about some software:  if companies made products that needed continuous patches and updates those companies would go out of business.  But we "put up" with it so it persists.  We have ourselves to blame........

An acceptance check list?  

Yeah, I wrote one of those, too:

https://www.speedsterowners.com...acceptance-checklist

Gordon, you should send it to VS.

I remember Gordon's check list (two or three years ago) I had a working printer then and stashed a copy of it...that's now lost, and a printer that no longer works!

Would someone please mail me a copy of Gordon's checklist?

Carl Berry - 7 Putnam Park Road, Bethel CT. 06801

 

Rusty S posted:

@WOMBAT - Any chance you could post a comprehensive list of things that needed to be fixed when you got your car? Establishing a list of common oversights might help the next buyer who's doing a little research on Vintage Speedsters and buys one.

Yes, my car has issues. But it also makes me so damn happy that it’s worth the trouble. These cars are not for everyone. They are not turn-key toys. They require an involvement, which is what those of us who stick with them love.

 I’m also a boat owner, and it’s the same experience. They are big-ticket items made by hand, with the inevitable oversights. Which is why many folks sell their boat after the first season. But those who work through the problems feel it’s worth it and go on to enjoy a wonderful pastime.

 As requested, here is a list of issues when delivered:

 Hood latch out of align so it was hard to open

 Headlight lenses upside down with fluting on bottom not top.

 One set of door hinge pins loose fit.

 Rear suspension too high.

 Fuse wire for horn not connected.

 No anti-rattle clips on calipers

 For less than 30 grand, some warranty parts from VS, a few hundred bucks for mechanics, and an hour or two of my time, I now have a great car.  I’m sure new issues will pop up. But like a long-lasting marriage, I’ll work through them.

 

 

 

Wombat, I have to reply.

If our car simply had some loose fitting door hinges, horn not working and upside down headlamp lenses (I know, I left off a couple items), I would've been giddy with elation.

Our's spit 5 quarts of oil...twice...on our way home from Kirks "factory".

after we (finally) got home, the engine blew up after 500 miles. The reasons are chronicled here on this site

and this is only the tip of the iceberg, do a search on this website for VS mishaps

I have plenty of company and mis-fitting hoods are not what I'm talking about!

I've owned 8 bass boats and none of them required "shaking them down". If that were the case, Ranger, Triton and Bass Cat would've been tanked long ago.

Quality is a state of mind, a way of doing life and this is clearly, not VS's goal.

Ron O posted:

Many non car guys, who envision themselves cruising down the highway in their beautiful, new replica speedster quickly come to realize they have bitten off more than they can chew.

Some find a really good mechanic that understands their cars.  Others take on the challenge and learn how to fix their cars, while others decide that their little dream machine is not worth the hassle.

That, I think, is why we see so many low mileage speedsters for sale.

It's hard to "like" this (as it's just too bad) but it's 100% true.

It's hard to make an argument for an expensive, underpowered, leaky engine with fake-Weber EMPI-carbs (with a sloppy linkage) and fake-009 Pertronix ignition (with spark-scatter by the bushels). I've called the Type 1 a "fancy lawn mower engine"-- but honestly, that does a disservice to lawn mowers.

It's no wonder the hobby in running on a dead sprint to the 2.5L Subaru.

Air-cooled is and always will be my hill to die on, but in 10 years it'll be me and a bunch of drag-racers. There's zero argument to be made for a 200 hp engine that costs $10K and lasts <50K mi.

There's a slot here for somebody to do something creative, but I'll be darned if I can see it happening. CB has had how many abortive Injection systems now? 

 

You can only put so much lipstick on a pig....after 2AM last call/alkihol all bets are off.

Rusty S posted:

@WOMBAT - Any chance you could post a comprehensive list of things that needed to be fixed when you got your car? Establishing a list of common oversights might help the next buyer who's doing a little research on Vintage Speedsters and buys one.

Or better yet, VS catches wind of this post and takes it upon themselves to prevent some of the quality control issues before products leave the shop...

 

Economics 101 Final Exam

 

1) If the Acme Widget Corporation is already selling as many widgets as they can make in a month and they find a slower, more costly way to make the same widgets, what are the odds they will change their production methods?

2) If the Acme Widget Corporation is already selling as many widgets as they can make in a month and they find that cutting costs doesn't reduce sales numbers, what are the odds they will keep looking for ways to cut costs?

3) If most Acme Widgets are sold via internet advertising and pretty online pictures, what is the most essential part of a widget?

A) The ball bearings in the freebish joint

B) German alloy, counter-weighted, dynamically-balanced crankdoodles

C) The paint job

4) In a hypothetical land of the free and home of the brave, everyone claims to want the best quality widgets, slowly and carefully assembled by domestic workers who are paid a fair wage. Which widgets will be purchased in the greatest numbers?

A) The highest quality widgets

B) Widgets carefully assembled by domestic workers

C) The cheapest widgets

 

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

4) In a hypothetical land of the free and home of the brave, everyone claims to want the best quality widgets, slowly and carefully assembled by domestic workers who are paid a fair wage. Which widgets will be purchased in the greatest numbers?

A) The highest quality widgets

B) Widgets carefully assembled by domestic workers

C) The cheapest widgets

 

Mitch Toll for President.

You hit a nerve with number 4, buddy. Everybody talks about wanting high quality widgets-- talks and talks and talks and talks. Everybody moans about the sorry state of widgets-- moans and moans and moans and moans.

Then somebody builds a part, or assembly, or even an entire vehicle driven by something other than price (and price alone)... to be met with a chorus of folks harping about the price. We'd like our kids to get high-paying jobs, but want complex manufactured goods to sell for .10 on the dollar. We've elevated "the art of the deal" to a virtue surpassing thrift or industry. We see generosity as some sort of character flaw.

I was raised in an environment of thrift and industry, which somehow morphed into a climate of "getting a deal". Vintage Speedsters sells as many cars as it has the ability to build preciously because, at the bottom of it all, people feel duped if they pay 50% more for something 100% better. There is ZERO incentive for Kirk to ever change his business model as long as this is the case. He can't "scale up" because his margin isn't wide enough to allow it, and he can't take more time on each build... because his margin isn't wide enough to allow it.

It's perplexing.

Again, I'm writing in Mitch Toll this November. Join me in voting for Mitch Toll as President of the United States of America.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*paid for by Citizens for Mitch Toll

Where do I sign the petition?

Stan's right, Mitch for President, or King, whichever he prefers, Kalifornia can be his first kingdom.

but Stan, Kirk does not, repeat, does not build his cars "preciously"! (emphasis mine)

 

Well, if you insist on voting for a write-in candidate...

Please help us save a ton of money. Please show your concern for the environment.

By checking the space below, you forever give up your right to a paper ballot. you will experience the convenience of voting online, and let us lay off 36 FTE's in the mail room. and let us streamline our operations to better serve you.

 

___ Check Here _{to forever give up your right to a paper ballot}

 

 

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Ron O posted:

Many non car guys, who envision themselves cruising down the highway in their beautiful, new replica speedster quickly come to realize they have bitten off more than they can chew.

Some find a really good mechanic that understands their cars.  Others take on the challenge and learn how to fix their cars, while others decide that their little dream machine is not worth the hassle.

That, I think, is why we see so many low mileage speedsters for sale.

It's hard to "like" this (as it's just too bad) but it's 100% true.

It's hard to make an argument for an expensive, underpowered, leaky engine with fake-Weber EMPI-carbs (with a sloppy linkage) and fake-009 Pertronix ignition (with spark-scatter by the bushels). I've called the Type 1 a "fancy lawn mower engine"-- but honestly, that does a disservice to lawn mowers.

It's no wonder the hobby in running on a dead sprint to the 2.5L Subaru.

Air-cooled is and always will be my hill to die on, but in 10 years it'll be me and a bunch of drag-racers. There's zero argument to be made for a 200 hp engine that costs $10K and lasts <50K mi.

There's a slot here for somebody to do something creative, but I'll be darned if I can see it happening. CB has had how many abortive Injection systems now? 

 

Your last sentence hits a painful nerve with me.  If I'd gone with Webers or even a Subie conversion when I had the car restored in 2009  I'd probably still have my IM today.

 

After 6 years with a fine 2054cc CB, I switched to a 2.5L Suby and I LUUUUUUUUV it!
>

A kid that I just hired is a Suby nut and his dad (just moved here) is a Suby specialist...now what to do for the next project, hmm.

Speaking of buyers agents, I believe, if I am not mistaken, Alex at Vintage Motorcars does that as well.

If you aren't going to spring for one of their cars, which I understand are excellent, you have a guy who knows these things backwards and forwards.

BobG posted:

Speaking of buyers agents, I believe, if I am not mistaken, Alex at Vintage Motorcars does that as well.

If you aren't going to spring for one of their cars, which I understand are excellent, you have a guy who knows these things backwards and forwards.

The cars are beautiful and the attention to detail is amazing. Alex... well... he's "ok"