Watanabe "banana" rims for stock..not flared speedster

Watanabes look like modified copies of Minilites, which were the first eight banana spoke wheels, I believe, introduced in the late 50s or early 60s.  Either way, they are probably my favorite wheels and look great on almost anything.  Show us some pics when you get it done.

Lane, Agreed

Looked awesome on early 914's...hope I don't have to sacrifice practical stuff like fit, handling and  ?  just to finish my dream. (in picture)

Google Minilite style 5 bolt wheels for Porsche.  Thy seem to come in many sizes.

EMPI makes a 4 bolt 5 1/2" x15 8 spoke wheel that looks similar for small $.  Pehaps you could get them  widened?

Panasport makes a similar wheel to original Minilites and they'll make them in any width, offset (within reason) and bolt pattern you want.

@Gary Hafner

Those Mini-Lites are definitely good looking wheels.

For additional visual reference, here are a couple other SOCers who have those style wheels on their cars.

On the West Coast @aircooled Bruce Williams

On the East Coast, Dr. Tom's coupe.

It would be great to eventually see pics of your car with these wheels on it!

You can get these in widths from 5"-10" in a 16" diameter.

Image Wheels Classic Minilight

Or these in a 15-20" diameter and 5"-14" width

Image RM2 wheels

All are custom, so any PCD and any offset are available.

I still like those 8 spoke EMPI's ! They are still on my list for consideration on my Spyder. The other is the Porsche 5 lug units..............Bruce

I love these wheels too, on almost anything.

Bruce, look into 914 2.0 SE wheels, I think they look good on a Spyder as well. Nothing beats wide5s though!

Man, that's a beautiful coupe.

Wow!! lots of tips...ok now... what is the ideal wheel size and widest rim size and best offset for stock? front CMC set of "banana" style (or any style for comparison) from somebody who actually has a set on.  Will be Auto-Crossing and putting on some serious treads for romps in the great local San Diego back country . Have lowered spindles on now but still have stock ones plus will consider front flares (brother is expert body man) if I can be convinced it will improve wheel/tire options and handling.

@DannyP posted:

Nothing beats wide5s though!

I agree. Try as I might, I just can't get used to anything else (V-190's excepted, but they're just a stock design in aluminum)

Speedsters are a bit different, a wider variety of wheels look good. Probably because I'm used to seeing other wheels on them for the last 50 years.

I found these, last night. I need to do some math in the morning with a clear head. I'm not sure they'd work on my car with an OEM width beam once I have someone whack an inch out of the front wheels. (They only come in 5.5x15) But looking at the pics, the flange to outside rim looks like MY 4.5 steelies.  My 5.5" rears actually have a deeper dish to them, so I think they'd be even better on the rear. Plenty of clearance on the inside of my rear wheels.  Might make a little bit of a handling difference with my rear wheels inward 1".

I think think they'd look good on a Spyder. (Probably because of my lifelong love of Halibrands Magnesium wheels)

@slowshoes That's Dr. Tom's JPS coupe, here on the East Coast.  2.5 Suby powered, but I can't remember if it is EFI or carbureted.  What I CAN say is that it accelerates like a rocket.  He has the Suby 5 or 6 speed with the Australian flipped R&P in it.

Subies are all EFI, except the one Stroud made.

Think about it, carburetors look, to anyone 45 or under, just about like a steering wheel-mounted ignition advance lever looks to us. We might know what it is. We might imagine we could even operate one, if we absolutely had to. But no way in hell we'd ever want to own one. (Let alone more than one).

If you're younger than 35 virtually no car manufactured in your lifetime came with a carb.

Still waiting for one...or more... of the resident experts I read comments from about best possible performance size/offsets of rims and tires for CMC?

Alan Merklin probably could answer this.

@Gary Hafner posted:

Still waiting for one...or more... of the resident experts I read comments from about best possible performance size/offsets of rims and tires for CMC?

I'm sure others will chime in but generally a 3.5-4.0" backspace in a 15" wheel with a 185/65/15" tire typically fits on a non-flared car. I can't remember if yours is flared or not, but this link back to Image Wheels shows how to measure and see what will fit on your car.  Our cars are all from different molds, and have had various things done to them so finding a cover-it-all answer is tough.

@Gary Hafner posted:

Still waiting for one...or more... of the resident experts I read comments from about best possible performance size/offsets of rims and tires for CMC?

IRS or swing axle rear?  If it's a classic (non-flared) body and IRS?  If so the rear is the limiting factor to offset/width/tire size as the wrong choice will rub the outer wheel arch.  You can get a bit of clearance by sanding outer inside of fender and the fender lip but you won't get but maybe 1/4-3/8".  The costly alternative is to narrow the trailing arms.  Many rear disc brake kits add un-wanted width too but there are disc kits that have zero added offset (so ensure you check).

I have 40ET offset (4.8 " back spacing) Porsche 914 2L 4 bolt  5.5" wide Fuchs with Bridgestone 185/65x15 tires.  Driver's side rear is "pinky" tight with original drum rear brakes.  I have Ghia discs in front but had to add a 3/8" wheels spacer so the calipers clear the rim.  The front isn't an issue unless wheels have a very low offset.

I have been looking at the replica 5 bolt polished Porsche 911 5.5" wheels.  Empi has 4 15/16" back spacing and CIP1 ones have 5" - so that about 45ET. That would give me about 1/4" more rear clearance (maybe I could go to a 195/65x15 tire?)  Use this to check offset/backspacing:

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Offset-to-Backspace.html

I think the 5.5" wheels on my IRS CMC have almost 5" backspace.  I have pinky clearance with 175 70 tires.

Finally the pros are starting to show up and we are getting some good wheel and tire dialogue…You will have to forgive me for bucking the traditionalists here at the site…which by the way is invaluable!!! on so many levels for any of us common folk. I have the utmost respect for their positions when it comes to messing with such an incredible machine in it’s purist form.  However I imprinted a long time ago on a Speedster that was mildly modified for fully taking advantage of the modern HP that could be seamlessly (well almost?) integrated with just a few subtle outward changes. Sorry Suby guys…had to stay with an old 914 type 2.0 (now a 2.8/180hp)…

Anyway I have seen so many exciting kit speedster mods with modern ( and “new” vintage minilite/banana types …my goal!) rims with obviously wider than stock rims in front and ask myself “How did they do it?... Do they just pose for pictures and drive down straight roads???

I have an Airkweld full size custom beam with 4x100 (which I can change) discs for CLIP1 discs front and back …(yes I recognize 2 piston Wilwoods would be much better…on front or back first?...later?).  and dropped spindles…Waiting for the best recommendations on performance front wheel tire size/backspace.  If I can be convinced best size required flares…OK (have great glass man in family). Rear is IRS with Kafer bar and Custom FOX shocks. Handled like a Go Kart with set of old 17x 8 205/40 rollers (yes… no sharp turns) and 1600 dual carb.

Hope somebody has  some wisdom to get me a size so I can start sourcing a staggered set of  rims and employ my brother$$ in some body work.

Thanks for input so far and ahead... for any advise!!!

Ha! You won't find many traditionalists here, Gary!

Sorry if I hijacked.

From what you've written so far, I think you'd be much happier with a flared body on an IRS pan. You could probably trade someone straight across for one and build off that. Eight-inch wide rims on the front, 10 in the back.

As Greg says, IRS is a little wider than the traditional swing axle, and in a stock body type Speedster it limits your rear tire width severely. Imho, you still get better real-world handling than with the swing, but with 180hp on tap it will be hard to get it all on the ground.

You say you have an expert body man handy. The slickest way to widen the rear wheel well on a stock body car is not to flare it, but to section the body and widen the whole thing. That is what Intermeccanica does when it installs Porsche 6s in their cars.

That'll be the way to make something that looks like the yellow car in the picture, and really handles.

I did similar to my MG TD replica a to fit proper wire wheels. Here's the start of the step-by-step.

Thanks Ed...sectioning was my ideal fix for the rear...see the pic of a real steel section job...something my glass man says is preferable than some of the bulbus flare jobs and the flares that come with most kits (Why trade is unlikely)...as well as subtly keeping the LOOK...tricky at lower rear panel but would aesthetically take care of rear/tire issue. Front will be more problematic but possible? Have 69 IRS pan already.

An 8" and 10" staggered set would open up rim options incredibly and obviously? performance. ..Just can't find Watanabe look I want in narrower set. Was looking for confirmation of 8" front setup before taking the leap.

Are you finished with your TD?   Love that look too.  Check out the 1928 Mercedes Drophead Coup pic attached.

Thanks, Gary

You're on the right track with pie cutting the rear fenders- I have an older (stock fendered) IM with irs and the most I can get back there are 195/60's on 7" Fuchs (originally 6" wide and have been widened 1" to the inside, ala '67 911S rears) , and that's with moving the spring plate to the inside of the irs arm mount. They clear inside by 1/8 or 1/16" and the inner fender edges by not much more than a hair.  Pie cutting the rear will allow you to run 225's on 8" (or if you chose 245's, 9"?) rims.  The trailing arms can also be narrowed upwards of 1½" to help keep things as compact as possible.  Of course, at this point, shorter axles will be needed...

On the front 6" wheels with 195's should work- any wider and turn radius (and hitting bodywork) becomes an issue.  I don't think that from a handling standpoint there's any advantage to going wider, and I also don't think anyone here runs more than 6"/195's on the front of a non-flared Speedster, but if anyone can prove me wrong I'm all ears!  Al

A 2" narrowed beam will give you 1" on each side without hurting the handling much, and a pie-cut and section in the back combined with narrowed IRS trailing arms should give you 2-3" to play with.

These cars need REAR tires more than front to put down the power. I'm thinking a 195-205 front should be plenty, and maybe a 225 in back.

But having said that, I've got no problem hustling my Spyder around with 185/65 front and 195/60 rears and 175 hp.

As for brakes, front are WAY more important than rears, single piston small calipers in the back are plenty. I've got Wilwood 4 piston fronts.