What's A 3:44 Transmission Worth?

I'm considering swapping out my non-freeway flyer transmission, that came with the 2008 Vintage Widebody (2000 miles) I recently bought from Joel, for a freeway flyer, but I'd like some idea of what I could get for it. I'd also like to hear some opinons as to whether or not the freeway flyer would add to the resale value of the car.
http://kvanasx.hopto.org/orangespeedster.htm
Troy

Troy, I don't know much about market worth of either transmission but I can't imagine that the cost & effort of switching them would be worth it (with regard for re-sale) in this down economy, particularly with the flood of Speedsters currently on the market.

BTW, those are really cool pics you took of the car. Perfect lighting at sunset for that car color.

Good luck with your project/sale!

Troy-

If you've got a standard transaxle, it isn't a 3:44, it's a 4:12. The standard "freeway flier" has a 3:88 (late IRS) ring and pinion. The 3:44 is a special, expensive "super freeway flier" gear, and you need a big engine to pull it.

I suspect you have a 4:12, and want a 3:88. I'd think the 4:12 would be worth a few hundred bucks.

Thanks Stan. I meant to edit that out before I posted, because I don't really know what it is, but I forgot to edit from the title.

IMHO, I shy away from Freeway Flier transmissions.
The 4th gear final drive ratio results with the engine cooling fan rotating a reduced RPM.
You would need to upgrade to a "Power Pulley" (smaller crankshaft pulley)and a balanced race fan. To me, all this is not worth the time and money. ~Alan

If you use a power pulley, the cooling fan spins even slower.

I think what might have been meant was that you may need a 356 alternator pulley to get the fan spinning faster. Whether you'd need it or not is a subject of much debate, and really conditional on the build and how you use the car. If you have good heads, and a big enough exhaust, and an external oil cooler, you're fine with a freeway flier. If you've got a 1776 with stock heads, heater boxes, and a Monza exhaust- you're gonna' run hot.

I've got a 2332 with 10:1 compression, a .82/3.88 top gear, and I run a power pulley. That is a lot of stuff working against running cool enough, but my head temps on a 95 deg day are never over 275 deg (I monitor all 4 cylinders). My oil temp never, ever gets above 220 deg.

But- I've got thermal coatings on my piston and cylinder heads. The heads are built on welded VW 043 castings (WAY better cooling than 044s). The cylinders are nickasil rather than iron. I've got a Raby DTM cooling shroud with a Type 4 oil cooler, and I run 1-3/4" primaries on my A1 header. The exhaust is a full 2-1/2" all the way out the back. I've got a 96 plate external oil cooler.

VW used a .89/3.88 on the super beetle, so it can work just fine if a guy takes the time to monitor what's happening. I just got back from a 500 mile (round) trip in the speedster yesterday, and never dropped below 75 mph on the freeway. The car ran flawlessly. It would have been torture (and a LOT slower) in a transaxle with standard .89/4.12 gearing.

Department or correction ..Stan caught my error, you'll need a 356 alternator pulley .... guess I need not consume Smirnoff Ice and give advice, at the same time ~

Hmmmmm???
My blue Vintage has the same 1915cc engine as my orange Vintage, but it has a Freeway Flier transmission and an oil cooler and they both have the same pulleys. The orange car has the 4:12 transmission and no oil cooler.

I drove both of them yesterday in 105 degree temp for 25 miles. Half of that was on the freeway at 65 mph and the rest was around town in stop and go traffic. The oil temp in my blue car was 195 and it was 220 in the orange car.

1. Is my blue car running cooler because it is not working as hard on the freeway and it has an oil cooler?

2. If I just put an oil cooler on my orange car will that drop it down to around 200?

3. If I just put a Freeway Flier in the orange car (no pulleys) will that drop the oil temp to 200?

From what I'm reading, the Freeway Flier, running at freeway speeds, should make the oil temp higher, but it seems like since the engine is not working as hard that would make it run cooler. Then adding the oil cooler would make it run even more cool.

And I'm still wondering what a 4:12 trans with only 2000 miles is worth?

Alan-

I knew you knew what you were talking about, but figured you just had a senior moment (as I often do). I just didn't want somebody searching a thread 5 years from now, and putting a power pulley on his engine to make it run cooler.

Troy-

I think the blue car's external oil cooler is making a big difference, but I also agree that at freeway speeds the engine working a bit less has some offsetting effect.

I've had more than a couple senior moments recently and hope this isn't the opening act, the positive thing is that I realize it and dont have to be convinced by others :(
I have not done this but in theory, it makes sense.
Has anyone tried running a smaller belt, this would keep the belt lower in the alternator pulley which in turn, should rotate the fan at an increased rpm.....~Alan

Troy, the difference in oil temp is probably the external oil cooler that the Blue car has. The 3:88 final drive ratio in our light cars is nice. I don't think it is contributing to your oil temp difference. A 3:44 is a different story. A 4:12 transmission in good used condition is $250-350 on Samba. and a nice Rancho Pro-Street with 3:88 will run about $1000 with no core. To make your orange car run cooler I would 1. make sure that the engine tin seals well with the body 2. put an external cooler on it. 3. Deep sump if it does not already have one.

Troy,


I just cut and pasted this from a comment that I wrote in another thread within this forum. It has to do with air speed and engine demands.

It takes a lot of power to go faster, the faster you go, the harder the engine works, the harder the engine works the more heat it produces. Therefore, it needs more air to to keep it cool and that air is forced over the cylinders and cylinder heads by the fan which pushes air in direct relationship to engine speed. The more RPM's the more air you force across the engine.
Do you see where I'm going with this?

At 3000 RPMs a 4.125 would be running 61.75 MPH and a 3.88 would be running 62.91 MPH with stock size tires. This is from a chart posted on SAMBA which I copied here. That's not enough difference to warrant a tranmission swap IMHO.

A std trans in operational condition with a warranty can be had for $250 plus shipping and a core. A core transmission is worth about $75 max. For ~$100 off SAMBA, I recently purchased a '74 "rust bucket" rear chassis hunk with id plates and matching title - as a bonus, it also came with 3.88 used trans, trailing arms, axels and brakes.

According to the Guamaniac's 'Book of Less Hassle, Less Expenditure, Less Work and Extrapolating ROI'...

...purchase the oil cooler/thermostat fan and include it with the sale of the car (for installation by the new owner if they so desire).

...I'm just saying...

Troy, I wonder if it would be cheaper to have the 4.125 installed in the transmission you already have, since it's (almost) new? I have no idea what that would cost-just throwing out another option.

I'm think'n this is the way it's assembled, it does run and drive well fine so IMHO leave it be and save mucho hassles.
More often than not, I have to stop and step back from a speedster project asking myself just how far I really want to get into this both time wise and money as many times if your not careful you can actually have a negative retun on what you think is a positive upgrade i.e the Freeway tranny. Always do all safety related items first and some eyeball upgrades are a selling plus. ~Alan

For your used stock trans, maybe $100 if it's local and someone wants it. They're all over the place around here. Shipping is insane and the nose cone would have to be removed in order for it to go by UPS. Too large and too common to bring any coin.

A real Freeway Flyer is more than just an R&P swap, and you certainly get what you pay for. Before I bought the swing axle for the Porsche, I checked everywhere and spoke with everyone, eventually I went with a builder out of Maryland if I remember correctly. If you want a trans built for hard high speed highway driving that will also live on the street and hold up to a decently built-up engine, you'll need to run four spyders, super dif, heavy side cover(s), welded gears and hardened keys MINIMUM. Plus the gears will need to be mixed and matched to keep the gap between third and fourth from becoming a dead zone. With a 3:88 R&P backed up against maybe a .77 fourth you'll need gears from the 411 in there to help with a good balance. With a box like this and a slightly taller tire, you'll be able to run-fast all night. As for over heating because of lower revs, the balance between the gears will take care of a LOT of that, plus the Freeway Flyer is meant to do just that, FLY ! ! Your revs will still be the same, the fan will still be moving as fast as before, but YOU'LL be moving MUCH quicker. With the increased speed, there will be increased air going into the engine compartment and through the remote oil cooler. If you aren't going to USE the trans for what it was built, don't bother.

If you've spent coin on the suspension and engine, don't just grab a "Freeway Flyer" and figure that a 3:88 R&P is gonna do it. That came stock in later Ghias and Supers, why spend real money on something that lame. Of course, as Alan mentioned, if the ride is done and together, leave it as is. Unless you like to go out hunting at night, a stocker is fine for both highway and local streets. Really.

I went through all of this with the 356 and the new Fiat, lots of options, lots of fine tuning in gear selection and such, lots of money spent, lots more to it than just a 3:88 R&P, but unless you really run a radical car or do some radical driving, there's no need.

Luck,

T

Thanks everyone. I'm convinced...leave the transmission alone and just add the external oil cooler. I really like Jim's suggestion of just including it with the car, but not installing it.
Thanks again.
Troy