Stan Galat posted:

Understood.

Just keeping in mind that he's got "multi-drilled" EMPI rotors (both early-VW 4 and late-Porsche 5), and everybody else is using the same rotors, just drilled for 4-lug.

NAPA will only have the 4-lug drilling, and the stuff on eBay is the same stuff CIP1 (and everybody else) is selling. What he's got is the same EMPI stuff, so welding/tapping it will give him repaired Chinese EMPI rotors. Most of us can't (or won't) walk into a place looking to barter beer for machine work. In my part of the world-- it'd take a week and cost $150, assuming one could even find a shop to do it.

I think Monday am, the machine shop should be able to give me a quote and then I can judge what I want to do. 

But your right it might be much easier to simply have CiP send me some new ones on Monday expedited.  

At this point I need to learn how to remove a castle nut and make somesort of bar to hold the wheel from turning while I stand on the other one. 

@Gordon Nichols I  will investigate the replacement stud route but how straight can I do this ...   what's your set upfor removing a castle nut ?

If you rarely get into removing / installing the 36mm castle nut this is a simple no special tool castle nut removal: Remove the cotter pin, place a full size crow bar between two of the wheel studs with the bar resting on the garage floor. 36mm on a 1/2" breaker bar with a 3' - 3' pipe to remove the nut. Reinstall the 36mm nut to approx. 240 ft lbs. ...use a new cotter pin.   If you don't have a torque wrench 200 lbs of body weight 2' out on a piece of pipe will suffice.

….I post responses to questions with simple way of doing things in consideration of cost and performing that task in a craftsman like manner with safety first.  Yes there is usually better methods with the proper specific tools  but requires you reaching into your wallet.

Alan Merklin posted:

If you rarely get into removing / installing the 16mm castle nut this is a simple no special tool castle nut removal: Remove the cotter pin, place a full size crow bar between two of the wheel studs with the bar resting on the garage floor. 36mm on a 1/2" breaker bar with a 3' pipe to remove the nut. Reinstall using a new cotter pin.

….I post responses based with a basic way of doing things in consideration of cost and doing that task based on occasion not doing something in a less than doing a task in a craftsman & safety first manner.  Yes there is usually better methods with the proper specific tools .

Thanks Alan, it is a good idea for sure.  I might get an air impact as sometimes you just need another tool for that once a year, it won't come off routine that I get changing snows and summer tires on 4 cars. 

How do you torque it back on?  I have a digital torque wrench I guess I need a 1/2 inch breaker bar and a long pipe.  Off to Princess Auto to get the stuff. 

 36mm nut to approx. 240 ft lbs. ...use a new cotter pin.  

If you don't have a torque wrench 200 lbs of body weight 2' out on a piece of pipe will suffice.

The reason for the 240 lb torque is that the stub axle is hardened steel compared to the softer rotor  or drum.  If there is the slightest play the rotor splines they will shear or wear  away. 

Alan Merklin posted:

If you rarely get into removing / installing the 36mm castle nut this is a simple no special tool castle nut removal: Remove the cotter pin, place a full size crow bar between two of the wheel studs with the bar resting on the garage floor. 36mm on a 1/2" breaker bar with a 3' - 3' pipe to remove the nut. Reinstall the 36mm nut to approx. 240 ft lbs. ...use a new cotter pin.   If you don't have a torque wrench 200 lbs of body weight 2' out on a piece of pipe will suffice.

….I post responses to questions with simple way of doing things in consideration of cost and performing that task in a craftsman like manner with safety first.  Yes there is usually better methods with the proper specific tools  but requires you reaching into your wallet.

First time I removed a Type 1 flywheel nut, I used a 3/8" breaker bar with a cheater pipe, (I think the cheater pipe is a John Muir suggestion).  The bar snapped and scared the snot outta me.  Use the 1/2".  BTW, Sears replaced the breaker bar with no questions.

I once used a 600 lb rated torque battery impact . Of course the gland nut came right off, prepped the new one screwing it in by hand than marked about 45 degrees on the nut figuring that would be about right torque wise. I blipped the gland nut with the impact in a millisecond the nut broke off inside the crankshaft. At first I thought well shyt, that's the end of that crankshaft.  Then  I stuck my  finger in the threaded part and turned it by hand until it was out of the crankshaft...…..  Dodged a bullet. 

Alan Merklin posted:

 36mm nut to approx. 240 ft lbs. ...use a new cotter pin.  

If you don't have a torque wrench 200 lbs of body weight 2' out on a piece of pipe will suffice.

The reason for the 240 lb torque is that the stub axle is hardened steel compared to the softer rotor  or drum.  If there is the slightest play the rotor splines they will shear or wear  away. 

Your second sentence above makes 400 ft.lbs , Alan. A 200 pounder should be out about 14.4" to achieve 240 ft.lbs.  A simple formula is to take the  desired torque divided by your body weight times 12 inches. 

Eg.    needing 240 ft.lbs with a 175 lb person would be   240 divided by 175 times 12"  or 16.46". 

Ray:  Going to a stud adapter like Greg posted WILL NOT change your bolt circle.  It is measured to the centerline of the stud, so the circle will not change (still 5 X 130).  

BUT, that is also why it is important to insure that the new stud adapter is installed straight, so for that you’ll need, at least, a drill press with a table that can hold the hub flat while being drilled and tapped, or a machinist set up to do the same (It’s a piece of cake for them and should take less than 30 minutes).  

To get the hub nut off, I have used Alan’s technique of cramming a long pry bar between wheel studs to use as a lever to torque against, but have graduated, in the name of safety, to a 2” wide X 4’ long X 1/4” thick piece of flat steel stock (Lowes/Home Depot) with two holes drilled to accept two hub studs, then spin on a couple of wheel lug nuts to hold it in place.  THEN use a 1/2” bat handle on a 36mm socket with a 4’ - 6’ piece of heavy wall iron pipe on the bat handle as a leverage extender/amplifier to gently remove the nut.  A “Torque Meister” is not required.  Actually, I have heard of more stripped nuts and studs from over-torquing with a Torque Meister than without.

For the machinist/mechanic payments -  I don’t use beer a lot, as I have found that, around here, home-made chocolate chip cookies or, even better, my wife’s double chocolate brownies, work even better.  Always start off with a photo of the car (that’s important), tell them what happened and what you’re trying to do and simply ask for help.  That always works for me.

I have honestly never seen a retainer quite like that, and I don’t believe it is Fuchs specific but hey........It is elegant AND it does the job so I would keep it, if for nothing else but a conversation starter.

Anyone can have a plain, old cotter pin.  But something like that?  That’s really cool.

Looks very “Graham-Paige” or “Delahaye”.

Don’t know if you need two of them on the same hub stud.......One, properly anchored, should suffice.  Stick it through the retaining plate and then crimp the side sticking through to retain it.  Run the rest over the stud and nut, through the hole in the other side of the retainer and bend the side sticking out through the retainer to hold it in place.  That’s it.  New Holland used something like that on early hay bailers.

"I have honestly never seen a retainer quite like that, and I don’t believe it is Fuchs specific but hey........It is elegant AND it does the job so I would keep it, if for nothing else but a conversation starter.

Anyone can have a plain, old cotter pin.  But something like that?  That’s really cool."

I assume that is one of Henry's little extras he does with his cars.

It looks like the axel stub and the nut were ground down to give clearance for the stock Porsche wheel center caps.  I have OEM 2 liter Porsche 914 alloy wheels and the stock (SS) caps wouldn't clear either the front wheel bearing cap or the rear castelle nut - fortunately tall billet ones were available.  So the very end of the axel with to the thru hole is gone.

Related image

Rear hub castellated nuts might only be different between swing arm and IRS, but I am not sure (it’s been 50 years since I played with swing arm).

Don’t you have an IRS rear?   That should take a castle nut for 68 - 74-ish (unless the earlier one has the same fine threads AND is a lower profile for your application).  If it is IRS you might check the nuts on Pelican Parts for a 924 rear - they might be lower profile, too, because they often ran Fuchs.  

The only difference I can think of, other than thread pitch or something, is whether early vs later are different heights.  Your original photos with the wire locks in place show a regular castle nut - nothing modified there, just the slot cut into the stub axle to accept the wire lock.

I don't have any center cap interference problems with my Fuchs, either front or rear, because I run wheel spacers.  I can see where if you have a long-ish drive stub on an IRS rear it could be a problem.  “Angle Grinder Time”!      

Thanks Gordon and Alan, you guys along with Wolk have helped me out.  The NAPA guy says we need your VIN no... lol 

Not sure if I ordered the right castle nut, but I will see what comes in the mail  

I am in the process of documenting all the parts that exist on my car for future repairs.  As with all manufacturers of custom cars the VIN no is not of much use as to what you have in the car. ... It is the territory we live in.   So I ordered spares as well as I do not want to be sidelined for a weel for a brake issue again. 

Everything must come in from CiPa and it takes up to a week.  I guess my DD Honda van took a week to fix my side electric door motor so it is the same thing. 

Your not wrong Bob, it just gets more and more fun hence the need to document what you have used seeing that we are the last IC cars that will be made it will get more and more fun to get repairs done unless you put the car up on the hoist remove the part and go hunting at NAPA with it and they look at your with deer in the headlight look wondering where is your VIN no.

BTW, if they look like they don't shave, rather have white hair, don't even ask them about anything. 

Alan Merklin posted:

Since you are in Canada, CIP1 in CA is your best bet.  I assume the machine shop wanted to retire after doing your small job :~(

The guy says to me welding cast iron will cost more for the rod than a new disk and hub as @Stan Galat mentioned. 

So I ordered two new disks and 2 sets of studs and one more set for spares should I ever need to replace anything, even another Castle nut, hope it fits.  I mean for $6 we have to wait a week for anything.  It reminds me when i was up north and computer parts would take days to come in.  I soon just bought an extra of everything, it was just the cost of doing business.  In this case with winter still here and driving time must not be wasted. 

Ray wrote: "I am in the process of documenting all the parts that exist on my car for future repairs."

I did exactly that.  Used a Bentley's service manual as an example and then just started writing.  It was during the dead of winter and I couldn't go out so I spent a big chunk of a week writing, but wrote it in MS Word and incorporated bookmark links all over the place so you can bring up the table of contents and then start drilling down just by clicking on what you want.

I have attached the Table of Contents and Section 1 so you can see how it works, although I'm not sure if the links will work if it's out of my file structure.

 

Attachments

No it wasn't that they wanted to overcharge me it was just that he was letting me know his cost of welding supplies.  I am ok with getting new disks as the running around etc etc would come to the same thing as a $99 disk.  I just got the second just in case and extra studs as well. 

I missed your new bearings and races, I will have to do it when I change the pads I guess I am hoping to get a more seasoned aka older P mechanic to help me out.   

Not sure what the maintenance time is for bearings on an IRS rear end in miles. Let me know what you think.

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