Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

@Carlos P posted:

All I know it is a 2332cc aircooled engine with 145hp

@WOLFGANG posted:

84 mm stroker cam and 94 mm pistons and cylinders.  Good size engine and 145 hp is probably right.

As @edsnova said, it's a type 1 engine.  With the dual Kadrons (with bigger venturis), I'm guessing a camshaft/rocker combo that goes to 5,000 (or a touch more) rpm with power and lifts the valves to over .450", Los Panchitos cnc'd heads, 8½:1 cr and 1½" exhaust.  It'd be a stump puller from about 1500 rpm and up.  I think the Kadrons would be just about at their limit, and I'd also guess that even with the longer 3.88 r&p it would be surprisingly quick off the line...  Al

T4's used in US 914's and 411/412 were fuel injected so electric pump.  Early T2 Bus  ('72 up to about '75?) were dual Solex carbs so manual fuel pump.  All T4 has place for the spin on oild filter near the horizontal larger than T1 air filter.  Oil filler and dip stick are different on T4 than on T1 but varied even on T4 applications.  A flat OEM T4 can fit in a speedster and I suspect a Spyder.  I think in flat form it is easier to work on than with upright cooling.  Upright conversion generally means loosing the thermostat too.  Heat exchanges - and the mounting to the engine is very different - being on the bottom vs at either end.  Near all T4 have an aluminum cases (a very few are early ones were magnesium) -- all OEM T1 were magnesium (but aftermarket one are aluminum now). On t4 you can remove/replace pushrod tubes with heads on - on T1 you need to remove heads (or use adjustable tubes).

T4:

Attachments

Images (1)
  • mceclip0
Last edited by WOLFGANG

@dlearl476 asked “I was asking how you tell the difference from the above photo.”

Well, basically, you can’t.

If you can look up under the back end of the car, you can look for the spin-on oil filter, but the BIG give-away is that the T1 exhaust exits horizontally, while a T4 exits vertically, down.  (But you could never discern that from the photo).  

This was kind-of an issue when I got my Massachusetts replica registration, because the engine supposedly has to be what was in a ‘57 Porsche Speedster, a 1,600cc.  Unless you tear down and measure the engine internals, how you evah gonnah know what it is from the outside??

@DannyP posted:

It is hard to tell with an upright conversion, Dave. But yeah, the fuel pump block-off is a dead giveaway in an upright conversion.

@dlearl476 This is the answer you're looking for, even though Gordon and Greg are doubtful. Just ignore, you CAN tell from the OP picture.

The type1 fuel pump mounted on top of the case between the distributor and the alternator right by the pulley. This we all know and have seen a zillion times with either a pump or block-off plate.

The type4 fuel pump was on the pulley end of the engine case but over by the number 4 cylinder, on the OTHER side of the distributor.

type4 pump

You are looking up, as type4 exhaust exits the bottom of the head. You can just see the #4 pushrod tube at the bottom of the picture.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • type4 pump
Last edited by DannyP

This was kind-of an issue when I got my Massachusetts replica registration, because the engine supposedly has to be what was in a ‘57 Porsche Speedster, a 1,600cc.  Unless you tear down and measure the engine internals, how you evah gonnah know what it is from the outside??

Yeah, Gordon, I have the same issue. The CA registration plate lists “1600cc” but the PO told me it has a “CB Perf 2.0L”. I haven’t waded into it past the rockers (which definitely are aftermarket) so I have no way of knowing. I tried to contact CB but they don’t keep records, or at least they didn’t.

That depends:  If you have a contact points ignition, then yes, a tune-up every year is prudent, checking points gap (re-burnishing the point contacts if you have a points file) and new spark plugs every 12,000 miles or so.

If you have an electronic ignition then you skip the points part forever and just replace the plugs every 12,000 miles

In addition, you should change the oil and check the pushrod to rocker arm clearance every 3,000 miles.

Much of this is spelled out in a Bentley's VW Service Manual for around 1970 or so.  If you don't have one, you can find them on Amazon or eBay and well worth the money.

Any weird things in your engine (like steel pushrods causing a change in adjustment) we can certainly coach you through adjusting, just ask.

And @MikeM you can certainly upgrade from carburetors to fuel injection, but doing some research on here will show that only two or three people on here have done that.  There is an EFI kit from CB Performance out there to install on your engine and "Bingo!", you've got fuel injection, but I don't know anyone running one.  Two people on here (Danny P and Michael Pickett) have gone the EFI route on air cooled engines and that's it for now.  Search around on the site and you'll see what they did.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
@dlearl476 posted:

I understand the difference between a T1 and a T-IV. I was asking how you tell the difference from the above photo.

The intake manifolds on a T4 are more H shaped, rather than the V shape you see on a T1: the ports into the heads are spread apart more.

So:

Instead of:



Also the exhaust comes out on the bottom instead of the sides so that's a tell if you can see the pipes.

If your car is well-tuned, with good ignition and carbs running well with good filtration, you shouldn't have any problems. Put Stabil in the tank in the fall. Put the car on a battery maintainer. Adjust the valves once a year and change the oil. That's about it.

I never had to touch my carbs, no taking the tops off needed.

@Carlos P posted:

For an oil change -> what is the best oil to use for this engine?

For the fuel ->what is the best Gasoline octane grade for this? 87 89 91?

Carlos, if you truly want to understand the madness, ask a question like "what is the best oil..." EVERYBODY has an opinion and it's slightly different than anyone else. Hundreds, nay thousands of posts have been made on this topic.

I'm willing to give you a short answer and a couple of links to a more complete discussion of the factors to consider. Just remember we're talking religion here.

My opinion if you aren't a super wrench and don't have an oil pressure gauge or oil filter added to the car:

- Use a known brand of 20-50 weight multigrade oil

- Change it every 3000 miles

- Buy regular oil or synthetic. Either one works well but regular is cheaper

- If you are feeling particularly over cautious, add a little bit of zinc oil additive at every oil change

There, simple isn't it.

By the way, the best gasoline grade depends on whether your car knocks or pings under acceleration or going up a hill. If you hear that pinging, knocking, chatter while the engine is under load, go up a grade in gas. 

As promised, here's the tip of the iceberg should you want to understand the oil question in more detail:

http://vw-resource.com/engine_oil.html

http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

Excuse me while I go find my asbestos leisure suit... DaffyOutrage

Attachments

Images (1)
  • DaffyOutrage

Before I retired, I spent 40 years working in universities and the last 30 years in the IT side of business. I ran across many, many obstreperous faculty members who had OPINIONS on how we should provide service.

In frustration at one point, I asked a tenured Professor of Biostatistics why every little point had to be argued until the cows came home (not in so many words). He replied "Michael, it is because the stakes are so small."

Yes, sometimes I feel like I'm right back at home at the university

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil 20W50 contains needed Zinc and is readily available at Walmart.  Brad Penn is another good oil available from performance shop or online.

If you don't drive a lot and your car sits with gas in it, look around for non-ethanol gas.  It has a long sitting life (ethanol gas go bad in as short as 30 days!)  Often available near farm or marinas.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil 20W50 contains needed Zinc and is readily available at Walmart.  Brad Penn is another good oil available from performance shop or online.

If you don't drive a lot and your car sits with gas in it, look around for non-ethanol gas.  It has a long sitting life (ethanol gas go bad in as short as 30 days!)  Often available near farm or marinas.

Great advice. I've been running the Valvoline VR1 20W50 for the last couple of years and it works well where I live.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil 20W50 contains needed Zinc and is readily available at Walmart.  Brad Penn is another good oil available from performance shop or online.

If you don't drive a lot and your car sits with gas in it, look around for non-ethanol gas.  It has a long sitting life (ethanol gas go bad in as short as 30 days!)  Often available near farm or marinas.

Agreed. Rural counties tend to have it as well. I live at the southern tip of one such county. I'm 60 miles north of NYC and people come from the city or the surrounding counties that only have ethanol-laced gasoline. People also come from New Jersey to get our 91 octane ethanol-free.

I use VR1as well, got it at our local Autozone on sale.

Before I retired, I spent 40 years working in universities and the last 30 years in the IT side of business. I ran across many, many obstreperous faculty members who had OPINIONS on how we should provide service.

In frustration at one point, I asked a tenured Professor of Biostatistics why every little point had to be argued until the cows came home (not in so many words). He replied "Michael, it is because the stakes are so small."

Yes, sometimes I feel like I'm right back at home at the university

And we know the joke about God and tenured faculty members.

.

@Carlos P , Michael Pickett and others have done a remarkable job of shielding you from the bloodshed and violence that usually erupt here whenever oil is discussed. You can tell they've had to go to great lengths if they're resorting to words like 'obstreperous'.

But I feel they have done you something of a disservice in the course of protecting you from the ugliness of war.

There are a few thorny, technical issues at the root of this. Most of us don't understand these very much, but's it's important that you at least sound  like you do. You need to have a few key terms handy and ready to toss into the conversation whenever this comes up amongst car guys, if you're to be accepted as a legitimate Speedster owner.

As far as oil is concerned, people who claim to know say our ancient VW engines differ from modern ones in one essential way. Modern engines can use all sorts of different modern oils because they have something called 'hydraulic valve lifters', while our ancient engines have something called 'flat tappets'. Now, I don't pretend to know what that means (and you don't have to, either), but just toss the phrase 'flat tappets' into the conversation in a knowing kind of way and you'll be fine.

Anyway, because of these so-called flat tappets, in the old days all oil supposedly had stuff in it to protect the flat tappets and some of that stuff was zinc. 'Zinc' is the other word you need to know to toss into the conversation to sound like you know what you're talking about. That's pretty much it. Just say 'flat tappets' and 'zinc' every once in a while, in an off-handed kind of way, and you're good.

By the way, it's starting to come out now that this whole story about flat tappets and zinc was made up out of thin air by secret departments of Russian intelligence agencies, and disseminated on social media in a very clever campaign to set us at each others' throats and create general mayhem among car guys - who usually get along with each other just fine.

As for which oil to use, I think the best advice is 'clean oil is better than dirty, and dirty is better than none'. That's all you really need to know.

.

@Sacto Mitch has summarized  @MusbJim's approach, and he's sticking with it!

Your mileage may vary.

PS: Your engine does need zinc. Phosphorus too. Exactly how much you need of each is the subject of study for a lot of pointy heads, and those who'd like to play a pointy head on TV (but have a face for radio).

Google "Bob's the oil guy" or something similar, and be prepared for much discourse, hand wringing, and eventual name-calling. This site is actually pretty benign, but there's a 100+ page thread over on TheSamba arguing the finer points of gear oil (of all things). I'm pretty sure there are people who believe that Mr. Booth shot Mr. Lincoln in Ford's Theater because of a disagreement over whether or not one could run a GL5 gear-lube with brass syncro rings, or something similar.

This isn't even engine oil we're talking about- and on that subject you'll find everything from Flat-Earth 30 weight advocates to guys who swear that 0w20 will work just fine in an engine, assuming the tolerances are tight enough.

Proceed with caution. Thar be dragons thar.

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Carlos P posted:

For an oil change -> what is the best oil to use for this engine?

For the fuel ->what is the best Gasoline octane grade for this? 87 89 91?

Carlos, in case you're not aware of it, there's an entire forum dedicated to German air cooled cars called thesamba.com. There's an oil there over there that, last I looked, was about 4,000 pages long, with probably the top 5-10 AirCooled experts in the world contributing, along with the rest of us schmoes. Along with the "Bob's the oil guy" website, this is the opinion* that I've arrived at:



In the 50 years since our engines were mainstream, automakers have been under increasing pressure to reduce emissions.  One way they've done that is by specifying oils with decreasing levels of detergents, anti wear (zinc, mostly) and anti-corrosion additives. The good news is that they've also discovered additives that lubricate better and last longer.  

The overwhelming majority of us use our plastic clown cars as toys. Personally, I change my oil annually, "whether it needs it or not."  It's a good year that I drive my car anywhere near 3,000 miles, which us the VW oil change interval (based on 1960 oil.)

Just about any oil you use, provided it has the proper level of zinc (generally thought to be 900-1200 ppm) will be fine  even if you didn't use oil with the proper level of zinc, I think it would be years before you suffered any abnormal wear.

Viscosity is another matter of debate. Up until recently, I've been running straight 40 weight in my engine, but I've succumbed to peer pressure and I'm going to start using the more conventional 10W/40 in the winter and 20W/50 in the summer, just like I did with 4 different VWs I put tens of thousands of miles on back in the 60's-70's.  

There are a few brands that fit the bill. There's the aforementioned Valvoline VR-1, there's Brad Penn, which a lot of guys like.  Being a contrarian, I'm going to start using this, because I think the cans are cool. image



And nd if my motor doesn't like that, I'm going to go back to where it all began because, once again, cool cans.

image





* "Opinions are like a**holes: everyone has one and everyone's but mine stinks."

Attachments

Images (2)
  • image
  • image
Last edited by dlearl476
@ALB posted:

@dlearl476- Yeah, those cans are really cool; do you know anything about either oil's formulation?

Miller more so than the Castrol. I spent about a 45 minutes talking to someone at Miller's US distributor. (Performance Racing Oils) Both are made with increased ZDDP and anti-corrosives, but with modern lubrication base stock formulations. I called because I wanted to hear their spiel about mineral (Pistoneeze) semi-synth (Classic Sport) and full synth (Classic Sport High Performance). I spent about 45 minutes talking to their tech guy and decided on Classic Sport 20W/50.



Here's the specific page for the semi-synth Classic Sport.

https://performanceracingoils....0w50-semi-synthetic/



ps: I just noticed on their website when I went to grab that link that they're stocking Millers GL-4 80W/90 gear lube now, too.  I'll post a review when I get a few miles on the engine oil. I'm sticking with Motul Gearbox (mineral80W/90) gear lube for now.

Last edited by dlearl476
@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

@Carlos P ,

There are a few thorny, technical issues at the root of this. Most of us don't understand these very much, but's it's important that you at least sound  like you do. You need to have a few key terms handy and ready to toss into the conversation whenever this comes up amongst car guys, if you're to be accepted as a legitimate Speedster owner.

As far as oil is concerned, people who claim to know say our ancient VW engines differ from modern ones in one essential way. Modern engines can use all sorts of different modern oils because they have something called 'hydraulic valve lifters', while our ancient engines have something called 'flat tappets'. Now, I don't pretend to know what that means (and you don't have to, either), but just toss the phrase 'flat tappets' into the conversation in a knowing kind of way and you'll be fine.

Anyway, because of these so-called flat tappets, in the old days all oil supposedly had stuff in it to protect the flat tappets and some of that stuff was zinc. 'Zinc' is the other word you need to know to toss into the conversation to sound like you know what you're talking about. That's pretty much it. Just say 'flat tappets' and 'zinc' every once in a while, in an off-handed kind of way, and you're good.



.



Last edited by edsnova
@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Thanks, Danny.  Sounds good!

I'll look into that.  I am sure I can find some 2000 page thread on 915 transmission oil somewhere. 

Bob, it's a single data point, but I ran Swepco in the 915 transmission on the turbo P car (after hearing all of the folks on Pelican rave about it). It was definitely an improvement. Didn't turn the 915 into a G50, but it reduced the 2 step wait times during shifts.

Thanks, Michael.

The 915 transmission is not for speed shifting, to be sure.  It really requires a gentle, understanding approach, so anything that can make that process smoother is worth a try.   The worst is the first to second gearchange.  After that it's a lot better, but still going into third requires a gentle touch.

I have Total Classic 80-W90 gear oil in there now. 

Bob, that is the gear oil that IM uses as their stock oil.  

I know there are at least two viscosity of Swepco 201 oil that P guys use 75-90 I think and there is also an 80-160 which I do not know if I would use but my local supplier says he has P guys using it.  Maybe someone else can comment on this on P trannies.

BTW Michael is right,  the shifts are much much better and when the tranny is cold you can shift without chatter but with the Total I had to wait till the engine was at full operating temp for smooth shifting.

In my subie tranny I have the 202 full synthetic 75-90.  

Add Reply

Post Content
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×