Wire around steering shaft on JPS coupe

Not much help I know,  it is either hot for your horn button or the ground.

You'll get answer soon.  

Horn wiring.

I just rewired the horn/relays to clean up the rats nest in the frunk. It’s not the horn 

I know the shaft doesn’t move that much, but I’ve never seen wires wrapped around a moving part like that. Wasn’t sure if any others have come across this odd ball set up

One Stripe posted:

I just rewired the horn/relays to clean up the rats nest in the frunk. It’s not the horn 

 

I know the shaft doesn’t move that much, but I’ve never seen wires wrapped around a moving part like that. Wasn’t sure if any others have come across this odd ball set up

 

 

I found the same setup on my older IM and it had something to do with the horn....hot or neg....can't remember. Can you follow the wire up to your steering wheel center and let us know what it is attached to ? Might be the horn ring. 

I tried tracing it but I lost it when it got spliced three times in the wire loom

Im going to decrease the length and zip tie it to something with less movement 

Wire to the horn button - on metal car it goes to ground with horn grounded to metal chassis. 

Thank you sir!!!!

I cut the loom, found it spliced three times and terminates to a relay in the frunk. Another wire goes from the relay back to the cabin and ends up in the steering column. J Steele sure did make his wiring over complicated, longer with more spliced than I would think necessary. I’ve found issues here and there (broken battery terminal, nicked wires, shredded rain drain tube, wires routed inefficiently, heater cable switch oversprayed). 

Things will get sorted!

One Stripe posted:

I just rewired the horn/relays to clean up the rats nest in the frunk. It’s not the horn 

 

I know the shaft doesn’t move that much, but I’ve never seen wires wrapped around a moving part like that. Wasn’t sure if any others have come across this odd ball set up

 

 

I’ve never seen Braille wiring before💩

There are several different versions of how the horn is wired on the VW steering column depending on the year, and it looks like our friend, Mr. Steele, took the easiest route and bypassed any and all of that and just ran his own wiring.

Some VW columns have a horn contact that wipes along a contact strip on the steering shaft, some have an insulated bearing at the top and bottom of the steering column whereby the column floats, electrically, from the rest of the car and the steering shaft may or may not be grounded.  They are all wired differently and it all depends on the year of the column to get it wired right. 

Anyway, yes, that wire coiled around the steering shaft is a typical John Steele kluge.  Let me know, if you can, what year you think the column is (if it is a VW) and I will try to help.

Thanks Gordon.  Mine was wired like that, with the added attraction, weaved thru the crash collapsible steer column cage.

and he (Steele) had the gall to call my VS a sow's ear...

I've ran into this a few times, what has happened is the PO couldn't figure out that the steering column shaft housing was not isolated and was grounding the to the 2 x 2 under dash frame, so they skirted the issue by wrapping the horn wire around the shaft. It's a poor set up :  Just a Previous Screw up....however, the wire will break before it causes a safety steering problem.

Gordon, the coupe is built in a 74 pan. 

After kicking the tires when I bought it November and going through the electric Madness a few weeks ago,  decided to put the coupe on some stands and did out what was beneath the FG. I pulled the wheels off, started coating the shell and began to see a pattern from the lights in the back. His wiring is messy, to say the least. Too many splices, too long of wire runs, wire runs placed/located/ran inefficiently, broken battery terminal, broken rain catch tray drip tube, painted wires, nicked wires, loose wire connectors, poor tape job. The guy that helped with my relay and glass fuse said “i used to wire like this...in high school auto shop”,  

The attached picture shows how John and his buddy wired the audio system. I’m not OCD, but I’m a freak for details.

Its a used car. Now I will make it MY car!

BTW, John said he’d “email me his wiring diagram. It’s at least worth a hundred bucks”. I gave him my email (and email only). I haven’t seen the diagram yet. 

Whats the green rope around the filler cap used for?

TRP posted:

Whats the green rope around the filler cap used for?

It's a spring loaded auto close cap. He hooks it open when filling.

Ah! Got it. Thanks.

lol!  That “green rope around the filler cap” is actually a bungee coated that was used to tie down the battery. That’s how JPS supported the battery to the shell!  Stay classy Mr Steele.

Currently I’m using that bungee to keep the plywood cover (used to cover the battery box) open while straightening out the relay/battery cables. 

Dang! I thought my guess was good

Those caps are spring loaded to a certain extent.  They pop up when you press down on them, for quick release.

So, half right is pretty good.

OK, on the horn wiring, I went through this a couple of years back and mentioned the fix on here.  Doing a quick search on here, this is what I found.  

Start with this one (you may have to cut and paste):

https://www.speedsterowners.co...7#477561294923338627

And then go to the following link:

The steering column is "hot" while the steering shaft ( inside of the column) is grounded in a VW factory setup.

So.....what you found is 'normal' - or at least as normal as a VW ever seemed to be.

Go here, scroll down about 2/3'rds of the page and read about how the horn system works, along with the infamous VW "hot" steering column:

https://www.speedsterowners.com...sion-mounts-1?page=3

AND......Then the friggin horn works!  The way it's supposed to!!!!

I had a JPS. The horn wiring was one of the things that made me die a little on the inside.

that's the ground for your horn. It's hot all the time, the button shorts to ground, and that's the wire John uses to complete the circuit. It goes around the shaft a few times so it will tighten or loosen with turns of the wheel.

"Sow's ear", indeed. John Steele is a legend in his own mind.

I can see knowingly buying a "roller" and having to adding engine and trans.  But what do you call an 89% finished car with a few warts?

A "John Steele Car".

Thanks guys!

So wrappIng the wire “around the column” serves no purpose other than validation of ones laziness and inability to find a better way to route that wire, correct?  If both termination points remain undisturbed I should be able to secure the wire to the frame while leaving room for the movement of the column, right?

No ....go into the Library source here, find the VS horn wiring diagram and you'll have done it correctly

Trying to use that wire by continuing with the service loop is fruitless - you'll be servicing it twice a season, trust me.  Read my post up above and do it right, once and for all.

The wire (now looped) is supposed to go down through the center of the steering shaft and is grounded at the bottom (IIRC) to a 1/4" faston tab attached to one of the steering coupler bolts to get its' ground through the steering box.  Read my other posts as it's been a while and I can't remember if the steering shaft is grounded or floating - the post will tell you.  

I know that the steering column (the tube around the steering shaft) is electrically "floating" - not 12V or grounded, just insulated, so you have to insulate it from the 2" X 2" crossbar under the dash (I think Alan mentioned that up above) with some insulating spacers as well as insulating it from the steering shaft by using a special VW steering column bearing for your 1974 column.  Search for part number 111953559C on this page at Bugcity to see one for a 1971 - 1979 column.  It has a plastic insulator on the inside diameter.

Gordon>GOLD!

So, in the last 90 days, what started as an attempt to fix a cracked battery terminal clamp has turned into a process of sorting out this coupe. Cutting off the end of the clamp led me to replacing the entire cable, as it was too short after making the cut!  There was absolutely not enough play to give me a millimeter of room to make the new one fit! Tracing it into the cabin, I found that the passenger seat had to be removed. The bolt head was stripped under the seat rail...and that’s when my journey began.

Get some coffee. This is a long list of things that I HAD to fix as I was seeing wires exposed with no protection, sheathing, connectors or poor crimping. Needless to say, I’ve rewired the coupe from front to back. Over the last three months I have: 

• changed incandescent bulbs to LED (11 total)
• replaced old mechanical flasher relay for a new flasher relay (with a ground). Don’t ask me how I know an electrical relay without a ground won’t work. Lol
• removed exhaust and had it ceramic (6 mm) and magnesium (2 mm) coated
• reinstalled the exhaust
• re-plumbed the breather tube for the air filter. The old set up had the breather tube plumbed into the filter base. For those with JSP cars, be aware when replacing your filter.
• rewired and rerouted all the wires in the engine bay
• painted the engine bay
• polished the manifold and everything metal in the engine bay that could be polished
• polished the carbon fiber in the engine bay
• painted the coolant reservoir
• installed a mesh grill in the carrera louvers in the deck lid
• installed a mesh grill in the aluminum grill cover
• painted the inside of the deck lid
• replaced all screws with SS screws or button head screws
• rubber coated the under body in all four corners, under the engine bay and the front and rear “bumpers”
• rewired the entire battery box
• removed the amp and cross overs from the frunk to the cabin
• replaced both negative and positive battery terminal cables
• installed new battery terminals
• fabricated a new battery tie down (to replace the old green bungee cord that can with the car-a JPS custom touch)
• rewired/rerouted the entire front end with new male/female butt connectors and heat shrink at each connection
• repositioned the air horns (there were two air horns located in the driver side) so that each horn grill had a dedicated horn
• created a new horn bracket for the passenger side air horn
• added the mesh grill to the inside of the horn grill
• painted the horn air compressor
• painted both air horns
• relocated the horn air compressor
• removed the glass headlight lenses and replaced them with the stone guards (purchased from an SOC member...thanks Frank)
• removed the passenger seat and rewired the battery cut-off switch (where the positive battery cable came to a termination)
• installed a new positive/negative battery terminals at the battery cut-off switch
• relocated the amp from the frunk to behind the passenger seat
• relocated the crossovers under the speaker tray
• painted all speaker grills to match the interior
• glued all the carpet that wasn't glued down before
• created a new full battery cover from cedar to replace the wooden half cover that came with the car
• created a relay bracket and moved all the relays into one area adjacent to the battery (previously the relays were in three different areas in the battery tray
• rubber coated the battery box
• painted the fuel filler rain
• created a new rain tray drip tube from clear tubing and copper
• painted the opening in the hood around the fuel filler (was unfinished white fiber glass and primer)
• changed the hood bolts with heavy duty button bolts
• velcro'd the carpet covering the tank to the tank making for a snugger fit
• changed oil and filter (I won’t go into what oil I used, but I did use a K&N filter)
• painted the shift knob (couldn’t get the other polished aluminum knobs off. I think John used epoxy as there holes used for screws were empty!)
• wrapped e-brake with leather strapping (temporary for now)
• attached a vintage Tag Heuer stop watch to the steering wheel
• power washed and detailed the rims (the front and rear are different!)
• plastidip all four wheels with 11 coats of black and copper metalizer (temporary as I don’t know if I want them PC a different color)
• added the dimensional Michelin rubber letters
• installed new Gorilla Nuts on all four corners
• replaced all wheel cotter pins
• replaces all valve stem covers
• applied the vintage HEUER CHRONOGRAPH and an Illest (a sponsor freebie) vinyl decal
• installed my new license plate
• under the car I polished what could be polished and cleaned what could be cleaned
• inside I conditioned and cleaned all leather/vinyl/carpet
• all wires are now covered in a Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) wire loom and all connections were heat shrunk and gapped using zip ties

I know I'm missing something. I know know the workings of this care (I’ve named her Danielle)

Next on the list is a new pedal cluster and some leather trim to go around the pleather on the dash where it meets the fiber glass dash panel.

Oh, I took her for a spin and filled to fill her up with gas. It didn't go into a blazed fireball from an electrical short and the wheels didn't fall off. So, I think everything is NOW sorted!!!!

DANG!!! @One Stripe, THAT is f'ing awesome. Nice work! 

Thanks @MusbJim!  The thing that kept me up at night for three weeks was the LED conversion. Started at the front and did only the passenger side at first. I needed to see the difference before I made the commitment. I left the driver side until the very end. 

When I rewired the back with LEDs, the passenger flashers wouldn’t work. I checked the grounds too many times to count and traced and rewired it for three weeks. I even checked my flasher relay and it worked. I said “screw that” and replaced the LEDs with the incandescent bulbs...and that sumbitch worked!  Dropped in the LEDs back in...no beuno!?!

I moved on to wired the drivers side and installed the LEDs, and it worked, but at half speed (not hyper flashing). I checked the grounds and rewired those for another week. I still had the incandescent bulb in the front. So I thought “damn it, the passenger side won’t work with LEDs but the driver side does with half and half?”  I scoured the SOC forum with no luck. Perhaps my search was either too vague, or no one with a JPS soob has ever switched their lights to LED. I went to Samba with little luck. Every one was saying to install resistors to stop hyperflashing which didn’t help my problem...no flashing and half flashing. 

I stumbled upon a Jeep site that said that if you are switching to LEDs you’ll need to replace the mechanical flasher for an electrical flasher!  Ordered one on Amazon. Same day delivery. Installed it. Nada. Same issues. 

I then found a motorcycle site that said you need an electronic flasher WITH a ground wire?  Hit Amazon again. Two day delivery. Installed. BOOM flashing on the passenger side AND driver side. I installed the LEDs on the front driver side and it all worked! 

So, for those that gave up on LEDs, try swapping out the old mechanical flasher for a new electrical flasher...with a ground wire. 

The End. For now. 

Sean

Nice work, Sean.  I have heard that LEDs don't draw enough current for some flashers, hence your issue (probably).  Glad you figured it out.

Wheels look way better.

+1 on the LED flasher. I got the Audew LED 2 wire flasher for a motorcycle from Amazon. It worked perfectly from the first turn of the key/directional switch.

Good stuff gang!

For those wanting to experiment with the plastic coating, give it shot. It’s temporary. If you mess up, peel it off and start over. The key is to heat the cans in hot water before spraying...and take your time. Don’t rush it!  A few light coats with 30 minutes in between each coat is key. To get a smooth finish, you do the last sever coats heavier than the first so that you get a wet coverage and it tends to level out the texture. 

I have a 1969 VW flasher that cannot (at least for now) be swapped, so when I converted to LEDs I just put a 10Ω 10watt resistor on each side running to ground.   That brought the current draw up to what the mechanical flasher expects to see and it works fine.  Mounted the resistors to the back side of the frame cross bar under the dash.  Same result, just a different way to get there.

i like a mechanical flasher, it is much easier to hear. 

"Hey old man ya know your turn signal has been on, for the last 10 blocks?"

One Stripe: I like the coating on the wheels, great job!

Gordon, good workaround.

Art, so you can hear, but can you see the light flashing on the dash? I went all LED for modernization and I'm ok with transistors instead of relays. Not one single filament bulb on the entire car. Every single bulb is LED, it was a goal of mine with the new build.

Gordon, did you attach the resistorsto the frame? Does it get hot or have you noticed? When I played with the resistor (to no avail) I kept reading that they tend to run really hot. 

Art, the odd thing is that the electronic relay makes the same sound as the mechanical one. 

The only bulbs I haven’t replaced are the ones in the gauges and clock.