Beck Spyder Engine Removal

Yes. I’ve had discussions with Carey. I don’t know if there’s anything specific to Type IV, but what he told me is it requires removing the rear trans crossmember, loosening the bell housing mounts, then tilting the engine up and rotating slightly towards the drivers side to clear the torsion tube to clear the trans input shaft.

He says his guys install the complete engines after they come off the dyno (cam run in) but I’ve stripped mine down to the long block so it should be easy. I’m also going to pull off my crank pulley for another inch or two of clearance.  

With the crank pulley off it should clear without a lot of drama. Particularly if the alternator is also absented.

The trans crossmember obviously does not come out. But you can remove the rear trans mount and maybe buy the tilt and wiggle room Carey and dlearl are referring to?

Helps to remember that it's not that hard to pull the whole powertrain. That's what I did while building my car.

Here's how I'd go about doing just the engine. Others with more and better experience could maybe refine this.

Step 1. Unhook the battery and remove starter.

2. drain oil

3. remove fuel lines and throttle cable. (Don't let gas drain all over the place).

4. front pulleys & belt.

5. oil lines (if any)

6. unbolt exhaust

7. remove air cleaners and bag carbs.

8. remove clam and store it. Hang a moving blanket over the body and firewall

9. attach engine lifting straps or chains: near starter and near distributor

10. attach engine hoist. a tilt thingy would be good to have. Otherwise you'll need a spare burley dude.

11. unbolt rear trans mount & remove

12. remove the remaining three bell housing to engine bolts/nuts.

13. Get to work. Lift the engine slightly and rock it to separate it from the transaxle. You want it to slide forward until it clears the input shaft. it should just barely do so.

14. Now tilt the engine as directed toward the driver's side and lift the front. You will work it out of the bell housing while slowing lifting up until it's too close to the lip of the body work. The it has to come back a little before going up & out.

Yes, engine and trans install and remove separately.  They TIV motor is much tighter of a fit than the T1 due to length, so while you can remove a T1 engine without loosening the transaxle (although its s easier to loosen it) you will likely have to do this for a TIV motor.

A few additional notes to what was written above by others:

Not all shock tower cross braces are removable.  If it is removable, remove it, but if not don't worry it went in there that way and it'll come out, just tighter fit.

We do not remove our clamshells for engine/trans install.  I just tie it back, slightly over center,  with a rope from the passenger side striker bracket to the battery tray after the exhaust is removed.  You can remove it, but I find it unnecessary.

Likewise, we do not remove anything from the motor, other than external connections (oil lines, wiring, throttle cable, fuel lines) we install and remove them 100% intact otherwise.  HOWEVER, you may need to remove your crank pulley on a TIV.  It's been too long since I've done one, but I know it is a lot closer tot he torsion bar tube than a T1.  you may find it easier to remove alt pulley or air cleaners as mentioned above, and extra space helps, but it is unnecessary and will go without them removed.

When coming out (or going in) it is all about the angles.  Walk it off the input shaft and start tipping the fan shroud towards the rear of the car.  You'll wind up with about 30* angle front to back and then once you're off your lower studs you'll start tipping the driver's side head upwards and will wind up without 30* angle left to right also.

I might try and do this in the next couple of weeks.  Great info.

Well guys I got the old engine out and put the new engine in.  It was a lot tougher than I thought it would be.  Pretty much had to stip down the new engine to get it to fit inside.  Now I need to install fan shroud, alternator, oil and fuel lines, carb linkage.  

I couldn't get the trans linkage at the tail shaft out, looks like something was welded on, so I had to remove the all the trans bolts in the center to get me about an inch of lift and that helped me slide in the new motor.  Never doing this again.  

Thanks for the great info on what to do for removal.  

About that Alternator/shroud thing: I don’t know if it was specific to my Concept1 Cooled fan shroud and welded/balanced fan, but when I put mine all together, the fan was rubbing on the shroud a bit. I had to loosen it all up and tighten one screw a little bit at a time, interspersed with some judicious “tapping” in between. Finally got it all tightened down without any rubbing.

Follow up. If anyone ever has a type4 engine they are trying to remove. It’s basically impossible to remove with all the accessories attached. Had to remove fan, tins, front pulley, unbolt all the transmission mounts and jack up the transmission in order to get the angle. Would have been easier to take the whole engine and transmission out.

Good to know. Thanks for the update.

That's what happens when you have a "big block" in a "small block" space.

He, he, a little Chevy/VW humor

How much longer and wider is the TIV, Danny?

I don't understand why the type IV is "longer".  Is the case actually longer?  Or has the stock type IV cooling system been left on?

Did you guys miss the he, he and the

??? I was joking. Really.

I've no idea if the type4 is wider or longer, although I would assume a little. Definitely they are a heavier aluminum case rather than magnesium like the OE type1.

Jake Raby has long compared the T4 to the BBC -- as opposed to the T1, which is akin to the SBC in ubiquity and the displacement limitations of the layout.

I've got no dog in this hunt, and I have no wish to become entangled, but the bore centers on a T4 are wider, which would almost have to make the crankshaft longer and the engine longer front to back.

If inquiring minds really need to know I'll take some measurements tomorrow.

I have a 2 liter 914 motor sitting  on the shelf.

Idle curiosity, but I am curious.

The Subie EJ22 fits where a Type 1 fits... but not exactly, as I learned when installing one in the back of a space-limited TD Replica. Sure, the overall width was OK—very close to the VW engine— But the Suby is the same width throughout its length, owing to the overhead cams.

That meant I had to move the engine forward an inch or so, or start doing some fairly complicated body work.

The Suby reportedly doesn't quite fit the same as a T1 when flipped around in a Spyder....

I'd never considered how different or bigger a Type IV was. Thought it was "the same."

But nothing in this world is "the same" as any other thing that's different.

Yes, the Suby and TIV are longer than a T1.  We have to move the mounts back 3/8" in order to clear the torsion housing.

@chines1 posted:

Yes, the Suby and TIV are longer than a T1.  We have to move the mounts back 3/8" in order to clear the torsion housing.

Thanks.  Good to know.