Clutch? Release Bearing? Transmission?

SERVICE ALERT: Perhaps that pesky release/throw-out bearing, which was discussed here back about the time of engine completion is faulty after all. Been experiencing an intermittent gear-clashing-like sound in first and reverse. Stopped by the mechanic's shop yesterday and was able to actually get the noise/action to happen when driving in reverse on a slight up grade. Then it disappears for awhile, but 25 miles later it showed up again with clutch disengaged waiting to turn at an intersection (maybe had the clutch pedal depressed for 15-30 seconds). A quick flick to neutral stops the noise and the waiting process for the next occurrence begins. It's as if the gears are not fully meshing at times. I haven't noticed anything weird while actually riding along in gear, only at a standstill, though there can be a linkage groan from first to second and second to third on occasion. I have had it happen when I back out of my garage, do a Y turn and put it into first. Putting it into reverse seems to trigger the action. The question is; should I drive it 200 miles down to Special Editions next week? I'd really hate to have it konk out on me half way down there and be at the mercy of some Bears fans in Illinois or Indiana. Any thoughts from you guys (Bears fans or not)?

Been doing a little searching here this afternoon. Found an article about the Bowden Tube. Does this sound like the possible culprit?

Bowden tube doesn't go bad - it could have wrong arc though. Adjusting clutch cable by shortening it doesn't help? Has the shortening method slipped maybe?

Greg, Not really sure what's going on down there, I haven't been in there looking yet. Currently I can only tell you symptoms. In the process of trying to find a solution here, there and everywhere (you tube, samba, etc.) I came across this part which seems to be a nice replacement part regardless of my problem. About $30.
There's even a video of it.

http://unique-parts.com/?wpsc-product=new-clutch-pedal-shaft-design

As an aside, going back to the first few days of driving, when I was just learning how to drive the car with the low end power. I did manage to create some nasty "clutch chatter" upon launch a few times. Do you think something could have bent, twisted or whatever during this extreme action?

Oooohhhh - the clutch TO release arms are pretty notorious for failing. The two fingers that hold the TO bearing have a tendency to crack at the welds (or other side of the welds). That would affect all gears - but maybe its just now going and soon you'll have grinding in all! It starting to crack would be same symptoms as cable stretching or starting to fray. They make heavy duty arm kits.

Picture of piece that fails - the two fingers crack.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/heavy-duty-clutch-throwout-arms/p2001093.jcwx

I suppose the best thing to do is get it up on a rack and take a peek. As I always say, a picture (or a view) is worth a thousand words. But don't let the suggestions stop.

I am not getting a good idea of what the problem that you are describing is. I would like to help you diagnose you issue, but I am not clear how the problem is occuring.

Will, a typical example: I back out of the garage into a Y turn to exit the driveway. Put the car into first and upon letting up on the clutch (sometimes just before) I get a nasty gear clashing sound...pop it into neutral, start the process over and that symptom disappears for awhile to reoccur another time miles down the road. It happens intermittenly. When it does happen, it comes on very suddenly, as if it just popped out of gear. As mentioned, last night while waiting for traffic to clear for a turn, in first gear, clutch pedal in, bam...gear clash chatter! Retreat , clutch in, back into first and all seems good. That's the best I can describe it.

Almost sounds more like a transaxle or shifter issue. Could it be that you aren't fully in gear when you shift? Not sure I see how the clutch would do as you describe.

Trans mount?

Thanks, men. Things to look at. Just ticks me off in that I was hoping to get down to see Carey to have him hopefully resolve the steering issues. I have initiated the towing on my insurance, but I don't relish getting stuck somewhere.

And I do get this intermittent groan/low grind sound from 1st to second, 2nd to 3rd. Only guessing it's all related. For some reason, ever since I discovered last winter that the car had a Wright transaxle rather than a Rancho I started wondering. Is there a big difference?

I was going to try to capture this on video today, but it's been pouring rain here most of the day.

Just glanced at the thread, but it sounds a lot like sticking synchro rings. Not clutch or throw-out bearing - that sould be more consistent.

You did check the trans. oil, right?

Initially my mechanic thought about the gears too as you say Gordon, I questioned fluids as well, Bill. None of this stuff has been proven out. Once the problem appeared with my mechanic at the wheel, he was pretty surprised by the whole thing. Currently it's all a mystery. He was only able to recreate the action once in several attempts. My dilemma is whether I should attempt a 400 mile round trip to see Carey to fix my steering issues which I had planned for this coming week. If I made it there, perhaps Carey might have an answer to this issue. I'm also wondering about any type of warranty on the tranny. I basically bought the car as a deluxe roller through a now defunct dealer of theirs almost two years ago. Didn't get an engine running in it until this July. The car was actually built in 2007. I know Carey's always a pretty straight shooter...time wil tell. But first, the diagnosis is needed. Something tells me it's all going to be on my nickel.
Oh, the madness of it all.

Sounds like you're not getting full engagement of first gear.

Check your transmission mounts. Are they in good condition? If the transmission is moving around from broken or worn mounts, it could affect your shifter alignment, especially going from reverse to 1st. And that "launch chatter" you mentioned could certainly be caused by a broken front mount.

Check the adjustment on your shifter. Could be your shifter base is too far forward to get good engagement on 1st.

After that, I'd suspect broken shift fork in transmission.

i'm with Justin on this if it happens as you start to move believing you're in gear. The shifter plate would be my first stop.

At first I read that you were getting grinding as you put the car in gear and if that's the case I'd make sure I'm pushing the pedal fully down and nothing is bunched up under it, then look to the clutch cable adjustment.

Failing those a loose trans mount or it's internal. Synchros or shift arm.

Will do men, thanks for the opinions. Just made a video, but something went hay wire with that as well. Not having good luck here. I'm heading back to do another video. I did notice the slightest notch when putting it into reverse can trigger it, not totally engaged as you say. Will report back in soon.

Video uploading to You Tube. I think it's linkage related. There's a notch when putting it into reverse that won't always allow for a clean selection. The video helps describe it pretty good. Hopefully you'll be able to notice it as well. I'll post when it's finished.

Okay, here's the video. Please bear with me, it's almost 8 minutes long. The most telling areas in reverse are at the 1:24, 2:40 and 4:55 marks. I think you can notice the two notches into reverse. I had more difficulty showing the problem for 1st gear but starting around the 6:00 mark there are a couple of slight incidents. I do not notice a second notch into first. None of these 1st gear incidents were as drastic as my Friday night episode where it made a drastic "pop-out" while waiting for a turn at a light, and I do believe I had the clutch pedal depressed when it happened (I may have just been releasing the pedal). After concentrating on this it does seem to be linkage related in my mind, but then I'm a complete mechanical numbskull. Hope this helps. I appreciate you guys trying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0iCwUmnoAk

OK, the sound at the 1:24 mark appears to be just not in gear, and everything that you do there suggests that it was not all the way in gear.
I did not hear anything at the 2:40 mark but it looked like it didn't want to go in gear.
I find the 4:55 mark POSSIBLY a bit more troubling as it seems like the noise continued well after you depressed the clutch, and with the proper throw, even if it was just not getting into that gear, it should have stopped. BUT reverse is not synchronized so if there were any kind of RPMs over idle then that noise wouldn't be surprising, and I just couldn't tell exactly what RPMs you were turning... so it may just be a matter of it not being all the way into gear again.
I am thinking linkage adjustment is part of the issue. I'd also look at the nosecone mount and make sure it is tight and that the rubber hasn't pulled away from the metal. Usually when you don;t have enough shift rod throw for the 3 down gears (R, 2, 4) then you have buckets for the 2 up gears (1, 3)
One thing you may consider is to pull the shift rod off the nosecone of the transaxle and put the car in gear with vice grips, right at the hockey stick and see what it does. OR you can put it in reverse, gently disconnect the shift lever, and then see if you can get it "more" into gear at the nosecone.

Thanks Carey. Time to get this up on a rack and see what's going on. Hopefully it's all relatively minor which I'm beginning to believe is the case. Hopefully I can get this straightened out, get our mid western hurricane to blow away and I can still get my car down to you for the steering issues before it gets too cold. I have no heat you know.

I have a bit of bad news for you. After watching the video I would say that the reverse gear (the small one) is broken. This is very comon. I've seen it a lot of times. It will work great for a long time and only make noise and pop out at times, however adventualy it will have problems.

I would say to have Rick Wright watch the video before you pull the trans, this way he will know what is going on. If it were a bowden tube, linkage, or mount issue it would do it all the time. I tell you from seeing this exact symtom a number of times that I'm 99% sure that is the problem....

Ah, thanks Kevin and good morning to you as well. Yikes, that doesn't sound good. I sent a message to Ricky via Jeremy via there web site.
Any chance you have a more direct e-mail address? It sounds as if you might have personal contact with Ricky Wright.

I am not discrediting Kevin's opinion at all, but I'd eliminate the simple things first. Again, one easy way to tell is to remove the shift rod and shift linkage from the equation and place the trans in gear at the nosecone. IF you pull it all the way in gear at the nosecone and it still does this, then all you are left with is internal of the gearbox... If you can't get it to repeat these symptoms then work your way down the line, systematically eliminating the possibilities...

Have you checked the gear oil????????!!!!!!?????

We checked the gear oil when it was here and it was good. I could make it grind just like the video if I stopped at the first "notch" when pulling back to reverse, but if I pulled through it you got a positive feel (like it was all the way in gear) and I couldn't make it grind.
The clutch was also over adjusted by a few turns of the wing nut and when pressed to the floor I could hear the pressure plate contacting something (probably clips on throw out bearing or the bottom of the arm)
Adjusted that and that sound went away and it felt better to me as well.
Rich, now that you've got some miles on her, did the clutch adjustment solve the grinding issue?