Warning : Rafael; aka CFM Mexico

Rafael also offers cheap dental surgeries and facelifts/buttlifts...tailight guarantee.

I've got nothing to add to Al's post except this: What a stand-up thing to do. Good on you, @Alan Merklin!

For those of you who are not aware, Al's got a CFM Mexico car, currently for sale. In the past, it was customary for people who had received a problem car from a builder who was having issues to gloss over the problems, as a way of protecting their investment. This was particularly bad 20 years ago on the old site - nobody would honestly speak up about issues they had with a builder or with quality.

Al's got a lot to lose and nothing to gain by posting this.

Well done, Al.

I lied - I do have another observation, which may not be as popular, regarding replica coupes.

20 years ago, there were no replica coupes (besides the rare-as-hen's-teeth Envemos), because a driver-quality original coupe could still be had for under $10,000. Speedsters had already taken off, and Convertible Ds and B-body Roadsters were following on the spiral upward - but coupes were the "less desirable" sisters of the 356 family with prices firmly bolted in sensible shoes range.

JPS was the first builder to offer a replica 356A coupe, about 15 years ago. At the time, coupes were starting to move, but had not yet made the jump - so the replica coupes needed to be priced on par with or under a replica Speedster. The first couple of cars JPS built were  r o u g h  (Tom Dewalt's green car was a site legend for all the wrong reasons). Looking back, it's no wonder - JPS was trying to build a coupe and sell it for the same price as a Speedster.

... and this gets me to the unpopular part of what I've got to say. A coupe is at least 2x as hard to build as a Speedster. The trim work is an order of magnitude more difficult - there are window frames, glass, operators, headliners, and everything needs to be water or airtight.

In order to make any money building them, the cars would need to cost at least 1.5 - 2X what a Speedster does - but nobody charges enough extra for them. Most don't have the additional capacity to build them. If your queue is years long, why gum it up with a tar-baby? If you can build two Speedsters for every coupe, that's a lot more money in your pocket, and 2x as many happy customers.

As generally happens, Mexico stepped into the breach. Rafael had/has a good reputation for follow-through and decent quality, and he was starting to sell a fair amount of speedster bodies and finished cars into the US.

Then he entered the replica coupe market and made the same mistake as JPS back in the day. In my opinion, he didn't charge enough for the cars. They're a lot harder to do. If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true.

Forewarned is forearmed.

I'll add that Rafael's speedster body is very well made with thick fiberglass, has a unique rain channel along the frunk lip and has additional bracing which is, a plus.  According to Rafael's message I got today, he has read my above post ...He is "very close" to having a perfect coupe to ship but has a Mexican glass supply issue.  According to the two customers, they have requested refunds and have been told they'll be getting the funds but in actuality have received nothing to date.  Until now I have been a proponent of CFM's product and almost bought the new dune buggy body kit. But I am now distancing myself.

I spoke to Carey recently about the manuals I'm doing and he let me know that after he empties the existing Super Coupe queue he will only do them in limited numbers on a custom basis like they do the 904 GTS.  They just take too much time to do, particularly when business for Speedsters and Spyders is so good.

Those of you who saw my car know how epic a build it was - and how complicated.  I am not at all surprised that he has had to do this.  There is a lot more cost involved and yet people are generally unwilling to pay the difference.

@Lane Anderson posted:

I spoke to Carey recently about the manuals I'm doing and he let me know that after he empties the existing Super Coupe queue he will only do them in limited numbers on a custom basis like they do the 904 GTS.  They just take too much time to do, particularly when business for Speedsters and Spyders is so good.

Those of you who saw my car know how epic a build it was - and how complicated.  I am not at all surprised that he has had to do this.  There is a lot more cost involved and yet people are generally unwilling to pay the difference.

This is not surprising to me at all. A coupe is a monumental undertaking.

Huge.

Update:  As of this evening, there are now three confirmed customers of Rafael's that have contacted me. One coupe order has been two years, the second coupe one year plus and a Speedster also one year. All three persons have requested refunds for substantial funds remitted and received nothing to date.                             Edit 6/26 A  4th individual has come forward, he is having a Spyder built by Rafael and he too has substantial funds paid and no car.

Here’s hoping Rafael can get his financial situation right-side-up, refund those customers’ cash and get back to work.

uhhmm , no.. kiss it goodbye..

I came across this thread researching Mexican made bodies as I have seen some social media presence from a company called Silverstone out of Mexico. Not to hijack the thread but anyone over here have experience with those guys?

@brsturges posted:

I came across this thread researching Mexican made bodies as I have seen some social media presence from a company called Silverstone out of Mexico. Not to hijack the thread but anyone over here have experience with those guys?

The few posts I've seen in FB etc. state the fit and finish are junk.

@Alan Merklin posted:

The few posts I've seen in FB etc. state the fit and finish are junk.

Appreciate the feedback Alan. I owned a Vintage Speedster about 15 years ago and loved it. Built an early Ford hot rod a few years later and sold that a few years back. I’m looking to build a speedster replica myself (my VS was a turnkey) and have been trying to figure out the best place to get a body. I have a rolling pan chassis ready to be shortened and am looking forward to the challenge of building this speedster myself. I know not a lot of builders will sell just the body. Who would you recommend?

NIB abandoned project CMC/Fiberfab bodies come up with surprising regularity. I’d set up eBay and Craig’s List searches. And keep your eyes peeled here, We generally post them up when we run across one. In the “Auctions” sub-forum.

Kitman is probably about it - it doesn't seem to be a complete kit but body and chassis so be sure to add up costs of bits.  Might be better off finding one in need of restoration or an unfinished kit - they are still out there!

Speedster Kit | KitMan Motors

@brsturges posted:

Appreciate the feedback Alan. I owned a Vintage Speedster about 15 years ago and loved it. Built an early Ford hot rod a few years later and sold that a few years back. I’m looking to build a speedster replica myself (my VS was a turnkey) and have been trying to figure out the best place to get a body. I have a rolling pan chassis ready to be shortened and am looking forward to the challenge of building this speedster myself. I know not a lot of builders will sell just the body. Who would you recommend?

There are just two: Vintage Motorcars in Hawaiian Gardens CA or Beck Bremen IN.   Both have a quality product with great customer support. If you were to consider JPS many would suggest you research JPS here to get a proper perspective . Kitman sells bodies, frames offering a copy of the CMC assemble manual as "Here it is you figure it out".  Silverstone in MX has quality issues...so that's a No.  CFM also in MX has been having production and long term delivery issues so that's also a No. I have built many speedsters and honestly the quality is in the Vintage Motorcars or Beck. PM me if you have additional Q's

"I have built many speedsters and honestly the quality is in the Vintage Motorcars or Beck. PM me if you have additional Q's"

Take him up on the offer.  He's built over 50 and his current one (for sale) is pretty spectacular.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Much appreciated!

@Alan Merklin posted:

I'll add that Rafael's speedster body is very well made with thick fiberglass, has a unique rain channel along the frunk lip and has additional bracing which is, a plus.  According to Rafael's message I got today, he has read my above post ...He is "very close" to having a perfect coupe to ship but has a Mexican glass supply issue.  According to the two customers, they have requested refunds and have been told they'll be getting the funds but in actuality have received nothing to date.  Until now I have been a proponent of CFM's product and almost bought the new dune buggy body kit. But I am now distancing myself.

Can you post a picture of that rain channel please

Points well taken. I do sell 356A coupe bodies and matching chassis.

www.kitmanmotors.com

Cheers,

Chris Kleber DDS

Building a speedster and coupe, you could acquire the experience and technical aspects to your customers as well as produce a Kitman specific build manual with photos and tips instead of an old CMC build manual, you would likely increase your sales.

And again @Chris Kleber, KitMan Motors drops in with a sales pitch, and nothing more.  It would be nice if he would respond over on the thread that asked about mounting the doors.

https://www.speedsterowners.co...8#714030421747213148

There is a place,  right now with the high prices,  for newbies to get into the hobby and a market for manuf,  if the product is priced right for a body manufacturer.  

Especially if they can accomplish the build alone or with help.  

I know farming out a pan with the mechanicals is one thing but if you can get it to body on the pan it must be only 40 hours left to build what say you @Alan Merklin

Would a semi assembled roller be something that could be provided.  Even if it was pre fitted then removed for shipping or export.  Just saying

@LI-Rick posted:

And again @Chris Kleber, KitMan Motors drops in with a sales pitch, and nothing more.  It would be nice if he would respond over on the thread that asked about mounting the doors.

https://www.speedsterowners.co...8#714030421747213148

Gee are you saying it is like pulling teeth?

@IaM-Ray posted:

Gee are you saying it is like pulling teeth?

Exactly!

Pulling wisdom teeth is a lot easier than doing this business for me.

Chris Kleber DDS

All new ventures are difficult as no success in one field transfers easily to a new field unfortunately