And the "East Coast People" span an area roughly from the Atlantic shore all the way to the Rocky Mountains, Canada to Mexico. I'm jus sayin...... 😉
@howdo posted:"world-famous OCCF (Orange County Correction Factor)."
What is the OC correction factor?
20%, give or take
… and Gordon, I think “out east” extends from the eastern seaboard to Lake Tahoe and/or Las Vegas.
Horsepower, pre-1973: put your best engine on the stand, under a velocity stack, with no alternator, an electric motor turning the water pump, and a set of equal-length tuned headers dumping into 3-inch straight pipes, then play with the timing and AF mixture until you achieve the highest hp number, then correct that (add to it) to account for standard temperature and pressure at mean sea level. Advertise this figure as the horsepower of all engines in that series.
Post-1973 (OEM): Install engine on stand with stock air cleaners and housing and all accessories and belts, with stock exhaust manifolds and mufflers. Tune for max and advertise as before, using smaller print.
OCCF: Pre-1973 x 1.18= HEADLINE NUMBER in Hot VW/HotRodder/Super Chevy/Car Craft/etc. “shootout” article.
Wheel HP: post-1973 - drivetrain loss and roller/tire slippage. Post on enthusiast forum.
That was unprecedented, and a really cool thing. It gave everybody a chance to compare apples to apples
... but, it was run on Jack Sacchette's "somewhat optimistic" OC dyno.
They still serve as a comparison between builders at least and how the engines need at least 3500 RPM to get torque.
@IaM-Ray posted:They still serve as a comparison between builders at least and how the engines need at least 3500 RPM to get torque.
Not necessarily. I believe all these engines were built specifically for this dyno run, where a peak HP number was the goal. These guys were all about the dragstrip.
My little 2165cc is pushing 141 lbs.-ft. at 3000. This engine was built to be run hard ON THE STREET. It pulls from 2500-6500rpm, like a diesel train.
These are the flattest hp/torque graphs I've ever seen. I can guarantee they'd be higher today.
This was an 009 distributor, and on 44IDF carbs too. Thanks again, Jake.
Attachments
Images (1)
@Stan Galat posted:That was unprecedented, and a really cool thing. It gave everybody a chance to compare apples to apples
... but, it was run on Jack Sacchette's "somewhat optimistic" OC dyno.
It would have been neat to see what numbers they pulled on their own dyno’s before the shootout and compare them to Jack’s dyno.
Years ago, Joe Aragona, of International Motor Shop, thought around 20% also. For those that don’t know, cars powered by IMS have set NHRA records.
@ALB posted:In the VW performance world pretty well everyone else has thought that the southern California engine builders have been exaggerating their dyno power claims for any given displacement/combination- to gain customers and look like they are the best. It's been going on since the '70's, with the East Coast people being the main force (maybe loudest voice is a better way of putting it?) behind the speculation.
I don't know who was loudest. But it was not mere "speculation".
@DannyP posted:I believe all these engines were built specifically for this dyno run, where a peak HP number was the goal. These guys were all about the dragstrip.
This is the main difference between Raby and almost everybody else. Pat Downs is a national champion drag racer, but everybody knows (or should know) that he builds other, equally impressive engines. Everybody else? I'd have to see evidence to be convinced.
Regardless, Jake has never been about the drag strip. Everything he's ever sold has been about the mid-range pull Danny describes. When you get a Raby engine -- everybody knows what you have: an excellent engine, punching up at least 2 classes from what it's specs and numbers seem to indicate as a possibility. They're amazing to drive.
Pat Downs can build whatever you want. Want a peaky dragstrip champion (or dyno competition champ)? He can clearly help you out. Want an impressive street engine with tons of torque? He can do that too. With the engines he's building for Greg's Speedsters, he's showing he can build engines for reliability and longevity as well. The man really can do anything you want -- but it's very, very important that you be on the same page so you get what you'd like to have. As Robert pointed out, he's built thousands of these things, and designed the most complete head program the AVCW world has ever seen when he WAS CBP.
That he's a gentleman and really decent human is just icing on the cake.
@LI-Rick posted:No BS numbers when everyone had to run on the same dyno. These are some of the biggest names in the industry. Hot VW's needs to do this again. Pat Downs was top dog.
Thats never going to happen again , it took a massive amount of work at the time , and Dean Kirsten from Hot VWs retired years ago .
I believe the SAE HP ratings from the car makers was as said above without generator , fan etc , but the European DIN HP ratings were as installed ,
@Stan Galat posted:I talked to Dean Polopolus about a Polo 911/4. For those of you not familiar, the engine is based on a 3.2L 911, with 2 cylinders lopped off. If I'm not mistaken, in 2008 a crankcase, a crankshaft, 2 cams, and a oil pump drive was $35K. Dean was playing with Alois Ruf and the Emorys -- he wasn't super-interested in a midwest guy with a clown car. He actually told me I was wasting his time, as I recall. I probably was.
It’s sad when people forget their roots.
https://www.speedsterowners.co...5#552297487119723685
@Stan Galat posted:20%, give or take
… and Gordon, I think “out east” extends from the eastern seaboard to Lake Tahoe and/or Las Vegas.
There is a saying where I grew up. "There's no life east of Sepulveda." Sepulveda is a street that is about one mile east of the beach.
@howdo posted:There is a saying where I grew up. "There's no life east of Sepulveda." Sepulveda is a street that is about one mile east of the beach.
Folks in Beverly Hills and Encino might try and dispute that.
@Panhandle Bob posted:Folks in Beverly Hills and Encino might try and dispute that.
To say nothing of those in Freeport.
@Stan Galat posted:To say nothing of those in Freeport.
Actually, here it's "There is no life on the north side of the Choctawhatchee Bay".
Stan, you know which side I live on.
Snore.
I'm a fan of Snoozeville, Bob. I think you know that. Your place is just about perfect, even if it is east of Septum.
@Panhandle Bob posted:Folks in Beverly Hills and Encino might try and dispute that.
You just made my point. Encino is in the Valley, Eww, and there are no waves or beach in Beverly Hills, how boring.
@Panhandle Bob posted:Actually, here it's "There is no life on the north side of the Choctawhatchee Bay".
Stan, you know which side I live on.
Snore.
North of I-10 looks very Deliverance to me. 
@LI-Rick posted:North of I-10 looks very Deliverance to me.
It is. Lower Alabama, shall we say, is a bit provincial. But great hunting land.
@howdo posted:You just made my point. Encino is in the Valley, Eww, and there are no waves or beach in Beverly Hills, how boring.
The folks in Beverly Hills have second homes in Malibu. I used to live south of the boulevard in Encino. Those folks don't care.
@Panhandle Bob posted:It is. Lower Alabama, shall we say, is a bit provincial. But great hunting land.
Sounds perfect.
@Stan Galat posted:Sounds perfect.
If only they had good windy roads!
The "New Yorker's" view of America - Pretty much the same as Boston's and Baltimore's:
Attachments
@DannyP posted:Jake got famous from his type1 work and certainly more so from his type4 exploits.
He was already noteworthy before the whole IMS thing.
My type1 was $6k(2002 or so) when everyone else was still around $4k or so. In my case, the premium was worth it. That motor is certainly more than bulletproof AND loads of power to boot.
I wouldn't trade it, it is a jewel. Even with all my modifications and changes I've made. I can build a motor, but he understands and experiments and KNOWS what combos will work.
My first experience with a Jake Raby powered Spyder was 15 years ago when I was at my first Carlisle event.
I was enamored with @DannyP Spyder and he asked if I wanted a ride in it...
All I could say was YIIIKES!!! :-)
"There is a saying where I grew up. "There's no life east of Sepulveda." Sepulveda is a street that is about one mile east of the beach." - @howdo
Get the U.S.A. out of El Segundo!! :-) LOL
@MusbJim posted:
"There is a saying where I grew up. "There's no life east of Sepulveda." Sepulveda is a street that is about one mile east of the beach." - @howdo
Get the U.S.A. out of El Segundo!! :-) LOL
All this time I was thinking that you were talking watching Star wars,…. Ze-bul—bah
Attachments
Images (1)