Unique Thunder Ranch Speedster on ebay

Lotta interesting parts there, looks like, and mostly of what you'd need. No muffler (or apparent provision for one) but that may be in keeping with the theme.

Gonna go out on a limb and predict that this car eats an alternator every 1,200 miles or so. . . . .

Not a fun of those knock offs, but the rest looks good.

It's got an eight ball with a 9 on it, wtf?

Hard toneau (spelling?) is warped or never properly fitted.

Interesting placement for the gauges on the floor, also Saab key placement. 

Try reading those small gauges at 70 mph ~

I'm not sure if anybody caught this, but this:

... is an A-arm front suspension.

Thunder Ranch was using a pan-replacement frame (like a MetalCrafter, but built by a guy in San Diego) for a couple of years before they sold out/went under. It would appear that this car has one of these frames (flat tunnel, wide cabin/narrow footwell), which incorporated the trick front-end. It's also an IRS car, so that's nice as well. No Kaefer bar, no mid-mount-- just a ridiculous little strap mid-mount on the transaxle.

The seats, while not my cup-o-tea (how they were upholstered), look wider than the standard VS/JPS shells. This is a big deal.

Ed's right about the alternator (exposed to the rain, lots of heat from the turbo), and Bill's right about the tonneau being a bad fit (pity, that). The faux knock-offs were a swing and a miss, but they were trying to hide 4-lug wheels. It's too bad they decided to put the knock-offs 4" out, like Ben Hur's chariot. I kind've like the gauges on the tunnel, and the AL gauge-hood is a nice touch.

The thing that would worry me would be temperatures. @Jim Kelly has been on a quest to run cool in his (very neat) SAS since he took delivery. This car is a turbo, no intercooler, and it appears the coolant lines run forward, but there are no shots of a radiator. This engine makes a LOT of heat, and it'd be good to know how they get rid of it.

No idea on what the ask is, but with a bit of work, this one could be very, very nice for somebody not opposed to the "9-ball" graphics (Bill's right-- a black 9-ball?). I'd think in today's climate, it'd be worth north of $30K for sure.

Good find.

Quirky. 

The brass hammer appears to be for taking the "spinners" off the rims instead of lug nuts?

With the temperature/gas level, tach and speedo where they are supposed to be, what are the two floor gauges? Oil temp and ? Or ? and ?

Correct, the hammer is to remove the wheels. And once removed they should be thrown away and replaced with something that actually looks good!

Boost, oil pressure...hard to tell from the pictures but a phone call or email to the seller could answer all your questions.

Those wheels are the keep the drivers away from his car, and the hammer is to defend himself 

WNGD posted:

The brass hammer appears to be for taking the "spinners" off the rims instead of lug nuts?

With the temperature/gas level, tach and speedo where they are supposed to be, what are the two floor gauges? Oil temp and ? Or ? and ?

The knockoffs are fake. 

I have no idea on the gauges, but I can't imagine running this without a coolant temperature and oil pressure gauge. 

Fake, I missed that. Thought she said they were real knock-offs. Ugly though.

$30k at their website. So considering it is a subie, might be worth it. Of course - plan on working on it. Personally I would trade out the wheels and seat and probably have to reconfigure teh gauges  - so you can actually see them while driving.

But all is all, I am a fan. Even the #9 appeals to me, but of course I am typing while low on sleep.

There also is an SAS on ebay. But I do not think it is a real listing. No info and it looks to me like Hoss' car  - so ... ?

As I said: if a guy is willing to do some work, it's got decent bones. $30K is a good price.

Go for it!

Yeah, saw the A-arms.

The obvious play here would be to remove the turbo. Run a nice, chipped 2.5 N/A with maybe a set of cams in it, build a nice exhaust with a muffler, bent away from the alternator... 200 horses or so is plenty 'nuff.

Yeah change the wheels but what of it? Might look good just shortening the standoff on the knock-offs. The paint looks pretty cool.

BTW, and apropos of nothing, I have named my garage "The Brass Hammer Workshop and Pub." I've got a plaque and everything. 

Turns out the knock-off hammer MWS sends is copper/leather-wrapped lead. So it goes.

Can someone explain why someone wrote: .030, .040, .050, and .090 on the wheels? I'm trying to figure out what that would indicate. Is it the amount of weight to balance the wheel?

I don't love or hate the car. I'd like it a lot more if it didn't have the WILDLY out of place glittery shimmery eight ball with the number 9 on it. I 'm glad he put the outlaw aluminum trim on the bumper. Now I know what it would look like on my car, so I don't have to spend the money to learn that it's not for me.

Stan - I couldn't find where it stated if the knock offs were real or fake. What gave it away?

I have to know how the carpet go so damn dirty with just 1700 miles on the clock!!?!

TRP posted:

Can someone explain why someone wrote: .030, .040, .050, and .090 on the wheels? I'm trying to figure out what that would indicate. Is it the amount of weight to balance the wheel?

I don't love or hate the car. I'd like it a lot more if it didn't have the WILDLY out of place glittery shimmery eight ball with the number 9 on it. I 'm glad he put the outlaw aluminum trim on the bumper. Now I know what it would look like on my car, so I don't have to spend the money to learn that it's not for me.

Stan - I couldn't find where it stated if the knock offs were real or fake. What gave it away?

I have to know how the carpet go so damn dirty with just 1700 miles on the clock!!?!

 

 

I didn't mention the bumper trim Ted, but since you bring it up... whatever Tom McBurnie used is about 50% too wide. I'm sure there are classier looks. I do like the twin grilles in the back, he was big on those, and I think it was a good idea.

The wheels are steel, and they have hubcap humps, and they have 8 holes, all tells of a 4-lug wheel. The rear has drum brakes, and the front has EMPI discs. The knock-offs are about 4" further out than any real one I've ever seen. EMPI sells a kit for 4-lug wheels-- this one isn't it, but it looks like a variation on a theme.

Legit knock-offs run $40K+ for the set-up with the special hubs and wheels. These are not real.

Ed's right-- I'd bet the turbo is why this thing is so cheap, but removing it would seriously mess up the vibe in the engine compartment. If I were a water-cooled guy (and I'm not), I'd probably haul this to Carey's shop and see if they could make it cool right and run well. I'd bet a donut it does neither.

Something is going on with wheels - note the red magic marker line on the raised center portion.  Looks like it was made by hand or fixed marker while wheel was spinning. The #s must indicate how out of round the knock off mounting flange is on the wheel.  There also is different # on outside rim - assume balancing weight.  I think the wheels started life as 4 bolt due to the hub cap mounting nubs.  I believe the knock off are rear - hence the brass hammer and jack in the frunk.

Not like any knock-off  Knock Off Rudge wheels I've seen. 

I'm not sure that turbo removal is obvious or even necessary.  Maybe someone knows more about this car than what the ad states.  IF the engine does run hot, AND boost is the culprit (neither are givens), there are easier ways to limit boost (as opposed to turbo removal) that would make the turbo a non-event.  It may not solve the problem, but it would surely be the first thing to try, since it's comparatively cheap and easy.  First thing is to determine if the wastegate is internal or external, then limit boost accordingly.  With 2-3 lbs. of boost, the engine would perform much like a NA model. 

I wish they had shown the radiator. As I recall the subie water pump pushes water into the engine, instead of pulling the water through the engine.

Is it possible to add an extra water pump on the exit to help  with water flow?

I ask, because I am thinking of subie (non turbo) for my IM.

You don't need an extra water pump. The stock Soob pump works just fine. 2.2l or 2.5l. 

For my setup we needed an auxiliary pump but you may not need it as David says

I stand corrected. My system is a very "basic" homebrew type. Can you describe your setup please, Ray ?  Possibly dual rads up front causing the need ?   What aux pump do you have and where is it placed ? 

ebay says auction ended and their website says the Speedster sold. Assuming the turbo is not an issue, that was a fair deal under $30K

I bet we see it again by the end of next summer...

Actually David, no correction intended or needed, your set up works well for you and you've done great work, I sometimes think of doing what you did in your car if I ever get enough nerve to buy a used IM and rebuild it for my son...

But in  my cooling system,  it might be the length of the tubing that IM uses.  I also know that the tubing goes up and around the wheel wells so there is much more mileage and gravity to defeat along the way.  

If you can keep the revs up there is no issue but I know that they(IM)  use an auxiliary pump in the front of the car on all models that are water cooled.  In my case I have two rads so it adds to the complexity and I have noticed that at idle if that pump does not work the temp goes up.  At speed there is no issue at idle the Subie pump can't keep up in IM cars. 

FYI, I added Evans cooling, lifetime coolant,  to prevent my having to change the coolant in my car with all that complexity and miles of water piping.  

Hope this clarifies my build. Ray 

Thanks for that, Ray. I'd never change my system because it works well and it took me way to many miles to get it right. I'd sure like to see a coolant schematic from IM or Beck some day though just to see how it should be done. 

Ray, David:

I believe the auxiliary pump in the IM is a cautionary/safety feature Henry plumbs into all his Subie builds.  He mentioned to me that he wanted to be sure that the cars don't overheat in stop and go traffic.

Beyond that, I don't know anything else, being an air-cooled guy myself, except that Henry thinks things through thoroughly. 

Hope to see both of you fellows sometime next spring/summer.

Bob

I think Henry's right: good, cheap ($200) insurance to plumb an electric in-line pump near the front. Wire it into the fan thermostat and run a toggle switch override. The stock Suby pump was not designed to push coolant that far, and even though the elevation changes in our cars aren't much different than in a Legacy, the greater volume of coolant, and its mass, could cause the Suby pump some stress.

FWIW, so far, my (NA 2.2) car runs well with the stock pump alone. 180F on the gauge usually, 195 up long hills on hot days. 

Not likely Henry would ever be wrong on this stuff for sure.  Just wondering though....does anyone know what type of aux electric pump might be used ? Then...if it is only used as an aux pump and running part time as needed by some thermostat controlled switch, does it create an obstruction / drag when not running ? 

edsnova posted:

I think Henry's right: good, cheap ($200) insurance to plumb an electric in-line pump near the front. Wire it into the fan thermostat and run a toggle switch override. The stock Suby pump was not designed to push coolant that far, and even though the elevation changes in our cars aren't much different than in a Legacy, the greater volume of coolant, and its mass, could cause the Suby pump some stress.

FWIW, so far, my (NA 2.2) car runs well with the stock pump alone. 180F on the gauge usually, 195 up long hills on hot days. 

...just an idea from my side:

usually the cooling system in a car should work in 3 steps:

1st: the water only circulates inside of the engine in the heating up phase

2nd: the water also goes through the radiator steered by an thermostatic valve

3rd: the water goes through the radiator and additionally the fan starts

If it is wired like you mentioned, the auxiliary pump will not run as long as the fan is off. So you will not have this 2nd phase...

In my opinion you should add a temperature switch with a low temperature switch point. The pump should run directly from the moment on, when the engine gives the water to the radiator. not only when the fan is turning.

For this I would suggest you to buy a simple 140 degree farenheit temperature switch (like on my photo). You add this switch to your Radiator. this switch directly switches the pump on, when warm water gets into the radiator.

I have very good experance with these switches in my bulds for the fan on the oil coolers and they are real cheap - may be 3$

Best Jan

http://daviescraig.com.au

Best electric pumps and controllers we've seen.  

Nice link there, Carey...thanks. So no obstruction with a pump being shut off because we mount things in parallel. Aye...'tis a slippery slope I'm looking at, eh ?

No issue as a restriction.  We've run them a) full time, b) manually switched and c) controlled with the programmable controllers.

That said, after redefining our cooling system over the last 8+ years, we've found that a secondary water pump is not needed in most of our applications.  We run them on track cars and on the more extreme builds, but even then they barely run...

I can also say that we've serviced several versions of Subaru builds by other shops/companies/assemblers/converters and lack of proper air flow and errant plumbing seem to be the most common cause for overheating (or just high temps).  It also seems like it is common practice for many to use a restrictor plate or no thermostat at all, which I don't agree with.

True story:  Back in 2012 when Chris and I were spotting at the Rolex, it was the middle of the night and Wolf Henzler was driving a Porsche GT3, trying to make up some time lost to an earlier 'stop-and-go', so he was pushing it and it was pretty intense out there.  All of a sudden we hear, and very calmly:

Wolf:  "What's the yellow light, upper right corner of my steering wheel?   It just came on and I can't see what it is."

Pit Boss:  "Wait 1........   They tell me that's the extra water pump."

Wolf:  "Should I be worried?"

Pit Boss:  "No.......  Just drive faster!"

Wolf:  "I am!!"

It's good that Carey chimed in so tubing lenght, gravity and complexity of the build all contribute to the cooling plan and he has done some fine tuning to his setup so it is not always easy ... so David your setup is great then .

Jan: right. Should have said thermostat control and not the fan.

Carey: Thank you for that link and your hard-won expertise.