TRP posted:
OH! and ... how many of you have doors that rattle when you hit bumps? Man... going down a back road sounds like I'm driving a covered wagon! I need to fix that. The doors shut well... it's just that they clatter and rattle on bumps. How do I fix that?!
I used dyno-matt on the inside of my doors and also stuffed polyester filling (a lot) to sound proof it even more - all prior to installing the door panel. Food for thought...
New, (thicker) door weather stripping will certainly help your door rattles. Put stuff in that has to compress 1/2 the thickness when the door is closed. I use 2 or 3 different types depending on where it's used on the door and how much of a gap I need to fill (CMC body - I live for door gaps).
The last resort is a new rubber bumper on the door latch striker (the part on the body) if it's worn. I have no idea where you can get those (Bug City?) but they are replaceable.
With the door shut see if you can rock the door in and out if it "clunks" and shows movement, move the striker plate on the door jamb inward a 1/6" or so You may have to elongate the holes in the fiberglass just a bit....this will cause more pressure on the door when closed.
I noticed my door rattling a little after I got her and I adjusted the receiver end (the part on the door itself). I loosened everything and moved it out toward the outside edge of the door. This way the door closed a little tighter. Thicker weather stripping would also help keep the body panels from rubbing together which could be a source of the noise.
Whoa. It's been a while.
Things have taken longer than I'd have expected but that's what happens sometimes in this hobby. The donor trans I had sent the builder was pretty spent. We chatted about what we could do to gather up some used stuff but at this point there really was no reason to go half-assed on it. I went with all new parts for nearly everything inside the transmission. I think we only used a handful of used stuff.
Customer service thus far with the builder has been top notch. No complaints what so ever. I'm confident I'll have the gearbox I was originally looking for when I started this quest.
Do any of you fine gents happen to know where I can find the information necessary to install a Gene Berg 5 speed onto/into a 1967 Sedan Pan? I will be pulling the motor and trans in the next week or so to prep for the pending delivery of the finished gear box.
Thanks,
Ted
Ted, "It's been a long time" that's par for the course of building and then installing a Berg 5. being a swing axle it's a bit challenging. here it is, the once over=
Instead of the thin sheet steel I used several layers of self adhesive aluminum tape. It molded into shape when the nose cone pressed against it.
Anthony posted:...Most of all, Keep telling yourself it's all worth it when I am done!.....
Ted, I can tell you that it was all worth it when Tony was done.
There's absolutely nothing more satisfying than knowing the job was done by someone who knew what they were doing.
BTW, if your current tranny mount has any rubber in it, you'll hear and feel the difference with this mount. There's more noise, but the powertrain is now more directly connected to your butt, so you're more aware of what engine and tranny are doing as you drive. In time, I think you'll see this as a good thing.
And if you're using Weddle gears, those are noisier, too. Comes with the territory. If you like closing your eyes and playing at being Hans Herrmann at the Targa Florio, you really won't mind this, either.
I guess you won't need a vibrating chair at home.
Better than Magic Fingers.
Hey Tony & Terry
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. Sounds very straight forward. If you were closer I'd drop the car off at your shop and just have it all done by you guys. 
Maybe I drive up on a Friday and drop the car off and drive home with the new 5 speed on Monday. (kidding... sort of.) Can't wait to get this project wrapped up. I was looking back at this thread and I had forgotten how long this has taken. The financial commitment is nothing when you consider how much time you invest in this upgrade.
About the existing setup:
The car already has a mid mount so I'm guessing those tabs will have to come out first (assuming they won't work for the Berg mount). Not a huge deal I have a cutting wheel. I already have Rhino trans mounts and a solid mid-mount. I'm used to the magic fingers from the 4 speed. 
Regarding this step:
TAKE THOSE RUBBER MOUNTS AND THROW THEM IN YOUR NEIGHBORS POOL!!!!!, Order the alum spacers. don't ask why just get them! Okay, that's done. Eric (my neighbor) won't suspect a thing. 
Where do I get the aluminum spacers? I checked their site and I couldn't locate them.
While the motor is out I'll be swapping to full stainless fuel lines, relocating the oil cooler with the mount @coolryde built for me a while back, some new spring plate bushings/retainers and wiring up a relay 'cut out' for the cooler fan while the motor is cranking.
Thanks for checkin' in...
Oh! I think I found them...
Is this what I'm looking for:
http://www.geneberg.com/produc...amp;products_id=3246
Or is it a pair of these?
http://www.geneberg.com/produc...amp;products_id=1071
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I think it's the latter of the two. The first example appears to be for the front nose cone mount. I'm not sure that I'll be using the front mount. I think that also goes in the pool next door, right?
order the ones for the front mount[first photo]. do not order ones for the cradle mount as in the second photo. If you have a berg mid mount in place you do not need to cut the ears for the five speed mount. I think that's what your post was describing. Call me if you want to bring it up for me to do it.
Anthony posted:order the ones for the front mount[first photo]. do not order ones for the cradle mount as in the second photo. If you have a berg mid mount in place you do not need to cut the ears for the five speed mount. I think that's what your post was describing. Call me if you want to bring it up for me to do it.
I have a different mid mount in place now, not a Berg. The one I have now was on the car when I bought it. I have no idea who made it. I looked through my old thread here and found a photo of 'it' from November of 2015. You can see the mount below on the right partially occluded by the red generator wire. 
You can see how the existing mid mount uses large I shaped tabs compared to the smaller (yet more robust) mounts of the Berg mount I'll be installing. I'll get under there and see what lines up and what doesn't.
Thanks for the info on the bushings. I will order two of the first style today.
I don't think I've ever seen a mid-mount like that, Ted. Usually it's the Berg (or copy thereof) or the Mendeola/Coolrydes/Joel Mohr (I don't know who made it first) style with the red polyurethane pads that bump up against (instead of bolt to) the frame horns. Could be home made? Al
PS- Too bad you had to spring for more new trans guts. I undestand that's fairly common, though; so many transaxles have been rebuilt numerous times and are just plain worn out. Up here where cars have more of a shelf life (winter/salt/rust/death) it's not unusual to find a trans that someone took out of a rusty car and put it away. The trans that my friends gave me so I could pirate the case (and side cover) for the 5 speed was out of a 1978 convertible, had never been apart, and the gear stack (and ring & pinion) look so good that it doesn't need to be rebuilt.
ALB posted:I don't think I've ever seen a mid-mount like that, Ted. Usually it's the Berg (or copy thereof) or the Mendeola/Coolrydes/Joel Mohr (I don't know who made it first) style with the red polyurethane pads that bump up against (instead of bolt to) the frame horns. Could be home made? Al
I'm guessing it's homemade. It uses a pair of rear transmission rubber mounts to sandwich between the mid mount and the tabs which are welded on frame horns.
I mean the two mounts when placed (side by side) appear to do the exact same thing. They take a bunch of pressure off the nose cone by mounting the mid point of the transmission securely to the frame horns. *shrug*.
you need the berg mount for the mid mount and for the front mount. Don't rethink it.
Anthony posted:you need the berg mount for the mid mount and for the front mount. Don't rethink it.
Understood. 
There must be a mount that you forgot
The mid-mount you'll need is different than what I have, Ted. The first generation Berg 5 used the GB 643
whereas the latest iteration uses a different intermediate section and nose cone. The newest support piece combines the mid-mount with the front trans mount into 1 assembly
Ted, Tony used the newer Berg mount on my car (as in Al's picture).
Tough to make good pictures without putting the car up on a lift, but here are a few, showing the aluminum spacers in place:
Great pics, Mitch!
Great photos! Thank you.
So... *deep heavy sigh* ... it looks like there is a different problem with the replacement main shaft that we picked up. From what I can gather they are all out of replacements. Berg is going to have the machine shop machine a new one for me. Unfortunately it's going to take 3 to 4 weeks. In Berg time... that's easily 2 more months.
I'm going to call Tim on Monday and see if we can figure something out. I may (oh the irony...) just go with a Weddle shaft and 1st/2nd gears. Yes... more money.
Maybe Berg will refund some money on the main shaft they ruined?
*grumble*
Wow.
Mitch;
That ground looks iffy, last pic. Yes?
Yes, completely frustrating. I'm thankful that the builder is taking the time to measure and check every piece prior to assembly. I doubt Gene Berg Enterprises will cough up a penny to offset the cost of Weddel parts. I'm most likely going to have to wait (longer) or... eat the cost of a Weddel mainshaft and 1st and 2nd gears.
Go with the Weddle, then you'll have bragging rights in the 5-speed club...
That ground should be fine. That bolt grounds at the top on the frame horn. It is solid and runs through to the bottom where it is attached.
No muss. no fuss. Im guessing that's auxillary component ground (stereo or some relay off the starter?
Ted
Mitch - did you gusset your trans? Wow. Beefy!
Thanks guys, but the ground strap's OK. Heavy gauge wire solidly bolted. Photo makes the strands look a little weird. No electrical issues. It's the main tranny to frame ground.
Ted, this is how the new Berg mount goes in. As Al says, it bolts on both at the front and in the middle. Mid mount bolts to tabs that are welded to the frame horns (third photo).
Thanks, Mitch. All that makes sense to me. My comment was about what looks like a gusset on the lower drivers side of your trans case. I know Tony reccomends them for high perf motors / 5 speeds.
Thanks for all the info.
Ted
Got tired of looking at my passenger door being all askew.
The top front was in and low. The lower rear was sticking out a bunch. Other than that - the gaps were good.
The lower hinge was a wee bit proud. I filed the alumnium spacers a bit. And filed the back of the hinge. I'll space the top a tiny bit and see how it works. Does the adjustment differ if you put the spacers on the body side or the door side of the hinge? I guess all that matters is the alignment of the hinge points?
Adjusting body panels is not my favourite good luck with it.
IaM-Ray posted:Adjusting body panels is not my favourite good luck with it.
I hear that. Im sure I will regret it. It all started because i was going to install new threshold rubber and trim.
Where's the cat?
When is a door not a door.........................................When it's a-skew.
TRP posted:Thanks, Mitch. All that makes sense to me. My comment was about what looks like a gusset on the lower drivers side of your trans case. I know Tony reccomends them for high perf motors / 5 speeds.
Thanks for all the info.
Ted
That case gusset is only really needed when drag racing and the car can pick the front wheels off the ground. A pic of someone local who caught it before it split the case-
The car runs high 11's at the local track and is a full weight, '65 Cal Look bug street car.
Ted, please document what you do and how you do it, with photos. Some of us are keen to learn.
That said, the thought occurs to me: the main disadvantage with a fiberglass part is that you can't bend it just a little for that final fit. My dad was a body man, and when I watched him work, I noticed he would adjust the hinge mounts first, then the striker, and fettle that a few tries until it was about as good as could be got that way.
Then, for situations like yours, where the front line was about perfect but the back was out on one part and in on the other, he might use a 2x4 or other stick, wedged strategically between two metal parts, to re-shape or twist the whole door just a hair until it was close enough to perfect.
Keep in mind, too, that in normal cars you'd be lining off the quarter panel, back to front, since the front fender was easily shim-able (and bendable) to get the front gap perfect.
School us!
Okay gang - this was so much simpler than I'd have guessed. I'll walk through the high points.
Here is where we started: Note the bottom corner of the door. It sticks out a wee bit more than the top. The top was super snug and it would rattle / hit the body so much that it actually cracked the thin top corner of the door. (boo!)
Here is where I ended up after about an hour and 20 minutes of work:
So the first thing I did was mark the location of the old hinges so that the door would be easy to align later. Blue tape - SOC's official sponsor. In hindsight this was not necessary as these holes are not adjustable.
Next thing I did was check the little aluminum spacers (silver inserts above). The bottom of the door stuck out more than the top. So I first looked at the bottom hinge spacers. Sure enough a few of them were a bit 'proud' of the door jamb. I removed each of them and sanded/filed them until they were flush with the body/door jamb. They were only 1/32'nd proud... so I knew that wouldn't be enough to fix what I was seeing. So I moved to the TOP hinge and did the same thing. Those spacers looked good. Needed more space on top.
Alan mentioned that I might need to shim the door hinge a bit. If the bottom rear sticks out... you need to shim the top front. So I took some aluminum flashing that I had lying around the shop. I traced the profile of the BODY side of the hinge. Use the drill press to punch out some holes to match the hinge holes.
Trial fit. Looks good! Paint it up and start reassembly.
Okay - first off... that's a piece of lint on the hinge, not a crack...
As I said earlier - the body to hinge bolts are fixed - they don't adjust up/down/in/out. All adjustments for up/down etc are done on the door side bolts.
The photo above is after I assembled the hinges on the door first and then tried to fit the door/hinges to the body. I had to undo that and fit the hinges to the body first and THEN attach the door. That was frustrating. The body bolts were too long to get a socket in there to tighten things down with the hinges on the door. It was tricky to do this by myself. Two people would help here. It would have helped me from dropping the door. (more on that later...)
In the two photos above you'll see the top hinge and the spacer and the bottom hinge and how snug it fits to the body without spacers. I eyed up the hinges on the door and body as close as I could... close enough. ( I used the dirt on the door so I could easily see where the hinges used to fit.) I SLOWLY started to close the door to see how it fit. I didn't want to chip and paint or crack anything. A few times of loosening the DOOR bolts and adjusting the spacing... tightening... and slow closes later. Looks... close. Too close.
The lower gap was WAY to tight. Back to the door hinges to adjust.
Front looks good... little tight on the bottom. Too much more and I'll really screw up the belt trim alignment. The doors should have been aligned better before the belt trim was applied. My 25+ year old body has a few cracks in the gel coat.
A few more adjustments. I just loosened the bolts a tiny bit and pulled up on the bottom of the door with some force. Once I felt it move... I'd close the door... test again. I got it where I think I liked it. More gel coat cracks. (I should have spent that 5 speed money on a paint job. )
Eyeballing down the body... looks close enough.
Looks good... cut. print. check the gate.
Looks good... except for the dirt and scratches in the door from where it slipped and fell over. If you look close you can see a bunch of vertical scratches in the 'crown' of the door. I'll color sand that out and buff it up. Now that this is all complete I can get in there and clean up the door jambs and hinge area.
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The shot below is for @Teby S. Once sheet of dynamat delux on the interior of the door. Super quiet and added some mass to the otherwise hollow sounding doors.
