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On another message board a guy mentioned paying $483/yr with Chubb on 2021 Beck Speedster with $55k agreed replacement value, unlimited miles. No other policies w/ Chubb.

I've never heard of Chubb before, but I don't know anything.
Just wondered what you other guys have or thought.
American Family
American Collectors
Last edited by americanworkmule
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OK, I'll go ahead and "throw my hat into this ring." I'm with State Farm (Speedy along with 2 other vehicles and my Homeowner's) and have been since 2010 with no claims. The annual is $400.74 for the following coverage and endorsements with 6,000 driving miles to anywhere for anything:

Antique or Classic Motor Vehicle (Agreed Value) @ $50,000                                                    Bodily Injury @ $300k/$100k                                                                                                          Property @ $50k    Medical @ $10k                                                                                                Comp @ $100 Deductible   Collision @ $500 Deductible                                                            Collision @ $500 Deductible                                                                                                            Uninsured/Underinsured Property Damage Limit per Accident @$500

It works for me!

Last edited by Napa Paul

I am getting hassled by AAA of my insurance. I think some new auditor looked at my policy. I have tried several of the collector car companies and they will not insure my car because I do not have full time a garage. It is stored in a climate controlled garage in the off season. They claim it is a CA insurance ordinance. Any thoughts?

@majorkahuna posted:

I am getting hassled by AAA of my insurance. I think some new auditor looked at my policy. I have tried several of the collector car companies and they will not insure my car because I do not have full time a garage. It is stored in a climate controlled garage in the off season. They claim it is a CA insurance ordinance. Any thoughts?

Where do you keep it during the "on" season? Mine's in a "non" climate-controlled 10'X20' storage locker and State Farm is "happy as a clam." Me, though, I'm not that happy, however, because it costs $208/mo.  

I have had Haggerty for 4 years now, no issues, fair rates and great customer service. Prior to Haggert I had American Collectors, no issues x 10 years then they let my policy lapse without a letter or a call and claim that they emailed me but I could never find that email. I drove for a month without insurance. This was a policy on 4 antique vehicles. I know I the responsibility falls on me but there should have been some type of notification sent. That is when I switched to Haggerty. No claims history.

Joe in NH

I fall into the camp of placing a higher value on protecting my broader assets as compared to my desire make sure I would receive ‘agreed value’ in the case of a total loss.   So with that in mind I called my insurer, USAA, to ask some questions.  I didn’t like what I was told.

In the event of a total loss, USAA would base the cash value payout on two things: the value assigned to the VIN and added value of any enhancements, but the value of enhancements is capped at at $5k total.   So if a ‘71 Super Beetle in fair condition is valued at $10,000 (???), the amount I’d receive for a total loss would be no more than $15k, and who knows what hoops I’d need to go through to prove the enhancements were worth $5k.  I asked the question a few different ways to make sure my question was understood, and that I understood the answer.  This just doesn’t sound right.  I’d like to think the cash value would be influence greatly by my purchase price, with perhaps some depreciation over time.  If I owned it for a month, drove it 500 miles and suffered a total loss, I have a hard time with the thought I would only receive 1/4 or less of the real value.  I think that would also mean any damage that would require $15k or so to repair would lead to a decision the car is totaled.

For those of you who have traditional insurance for your toy, do you know how cash value would be determined?


The only conventional carrier I know of that will insure a replica with "agreed value" insurance is State Farm. The story goes that one of the VPs bought a Cobra replica and couldn't insure it with his own company, and got it changed.

I've got everything (the minivan, the limo, the Speedster, my house, and the rental houses) with them. I'm shopping for alternatives. @Marty Grzynkowicz would be the guy to ask about which way to go.

Stan, I’ve read your other posts on this topic and did peruse SF’s website and found this statement as part of a top level description of insurance they offer for classic cars:

  • Limited use: Your antique or classic vehicle should only be used on a very limited basis, such as infrequent pleasure driving, shows, exhibitions, club activities or parades.

This language appears to be very similar to that used by the likes of Hagerty, Grundy, American Collectors and others.  So yes SF is a traditional insurance company, but to get agreed value coverage, restrictions come along for the ride.  I would certainly like to have agreed value, but I’m thinking I would prefer a more traditional policy that doesn’t include restrictions (aside from my low annual mileage estimate), and offers a reasonable method to estimate cash value in the event of significant damage or a total loss.  Maybe that doesn’t exist?



As per Stan, I use SF, and have almost everything else through them: home, auto, umbrella, cabin, etc.  Their price to me was much better than all the other carriers, including Hagerty, which insured a frame-up rebuild of a 67' Corvette by a buddy of mine for far less than my replica.  I had to submit photos of the car (upon purchase from Greg Leach, the odometer and declare annual mileage, which influenced rate. I will be meeting with my insurance agent this month to "up" the declared value of the car based upon the original declaration, and recent #'s from Barrett Jacksons, BAT and other auctions.  Seamless without a hitch in anything.  I have no idea if other major insurance companies for auto/home/umbrella, toys/etc. have such rates or policies, but it's worth an ask.

You don't have to provide odometer readings.

Upon a major accident or claim, they check the odometer as a means to disown your claim; you didn't have insurance if you lied. And every time you get service the odometer is noted and reported in a central database.

You can lie to get an insurance policy but it doesn't mean you have insurance.

For clarification:

Stated value... is what you state the vehicle is worth in the event of a total loss , the insurance company generates a policy based on the figure you stated but here's the catch . Do not think for a minute that's what they'll pay out. What the insurance company will do is collect an adv. market value on your speedster at the time of your loss and that's what the check is for . ( Yes as of late it's certainly in the owner's favor.)

Agreed Value..... is the figure you and the Insurance Company have agreed to upon a major loss this is a contractual agreement, that being said, the Insurance Company will pay you the agreed value figure and not wiggle around as they do with stated value. .... Marty G. is the go to guy on this subject.

Most stated value policies will pay either the stated value or Actual Cash Value, whichever is lowest.  Even if our replicas increase wildly in value, they will not pay more than stated value, which will have depreciation factored in.

None of us will ever beat an insurance company.  Stay with agreed value and check your car's value annually.  When the value increases, increase your coverage.  Then abide by the rules of your insurer.  If you can't, find a company whose rules you can live with.  None of us needs to have a claim denied because we were not within coverage limits.

I always recommend Hagerty Insurance.  I have agreed value on my car, and it wasn't a cheap build.  But, I am covered for the full amount of the build, plus sales tax.  Then, when I had the engine rebuilt, the cost of that was added to the agreed value.

It's not cheap in my case, but I have full, new build value, on a car that is depreciating every year - well, except these days, with the ridiculous sale prices.

I pretty well drive it whenever and wherever I want, as long as there is a car related purpose involved, and that can always be found somehow, if you use your imagination.  The car has to kept in a locked structure. 

To me, that is the type of coverage I want.

On another message board a guy mentioned paying $483/yr with Chubb on 2021 Beck Speedster with $55k agreed replacement value, unlimited miles. No other policies w/ Chubb.

Hey there, that was me. Did you get sorted out? Or still shopping?  Let me know if you have any more questions.  Happy to send you the contact info of the woman who helped me out, she was great.  Biggest thing with Chubb is the year on the title, determines everything.  I was able to get my car titled as a 1957, so benefitted significantly in pricing.

I was with State Farm for several years with a multi policy cars, homes, liability etc. Then they cancelled my Fire insurance after 40 years. AAA offered to insure the Speedster if I gave them everything. Then they cancelled my fire insurance. I went to American Modern for the fire. Then they cancelled and I am now with Progressive for fire and classic sailboat. At y'alls suggestion I will go back to SF again and try Chubb. Fire insurance is almost impossible here after last years fire. I have a hydrant across the street and the a fire station less than a mile away. Even in catastrophic fire like last year my house will not burn down. The CAL Fire HQ was in the parking lot at Heavenly less than a block from my house. 2000 firefighters there plus all the equipment.


Here's what I posted the last time this came up. My feelings about insurance  for these cars differ from a lot of folks here, so take this as maybe a counterpoint:

I'm more concerned about a $1 million liability claim than about losing $5k - $10k off the replacement value of my VS.

Basically, I think that's the choice that we all have to make in deciding about insurance for these cars.

I'm in northern CA and our daily drivers (and home owners and umbrella liability policies) are with AAA, so I just added the Speedster to that coverage. There are no usage** or mileage restrictions on the Speedster - no 'gotcha' clauses for the insurance company to exploit. It's insured as just another car. But there is also no agreed upon value.

AAA insures the Speedster as a 'kit car' and goes through the same valuation process in the event of a claim as they do for any other car - by checking comparable sale values for similar cars (in this case, for Vintage Speedsters). Today, that's probably a good thing, as our VS is likely worth $10-15K more than we paid for it and looks to be increasing even more.

Many folks here on the forum are concerned about insuring a pan-based car that's registered in CA as a '196X VW' because they fear their insurance company will settle only for the value of an old VW. AAA has explained that's not the case with this policy, as the car is not insured as a VW.

AAA is divided into several different companies, depending on coverage area. Here in northern CA, they're CSAA. In LA, I think they're just 'AAA', but the same auto coverage policies should apply.

**The car does have to be garaged when it's at home, though.


Dealing with insurance gives me a headache!  I had State Farm for over 35 years - all my policies when I was in VA.  Agent knew me by name (not due to claims).  Retired and moved to FL.  SF (All State too) wouldn't cover my condo (or any FL real estate). SF wouldn't cover my sailboat or my Seadoo jet boat!  They wrote the FL state run Citizens Insurance on my condo.  FL has gotten crazy on real estate insurance - seems to go up 25% per year. Makes you want to self-insure for real estate - there just aren't many that offer it. On cars - So many uninsured motorists (no license or suspended licenses), no safety inspections, lost tourists, and too many lawyers.   

Thanks Mitch, that answered my question, and that is what I’m looking for - absence of restrictions but retention of a reasonable valuation in case of significant damage or total loss.  

Triple A is on my list to call.  I’ve been an AAA member for a long time but only for road side assistance, not insurance.  It will be interesting to learn what coverage they would would offer me for a replica.   If I learn anything useful I’ll post.


I just hung up the phone with an agent from AAA (So Cal) who handles collector car policies.  They can offer collector/classic car insurance with ‘agreed’ value, but with restrictions such as 5k annual miles, garage kept, and limited pleasure use.  I then asked about a traditional insurance policy (so no restrictions).  Short story, they would handle calculation of a total loss similar to the method used by USAA - cash value would be based on the ‘blue book’ value of the VIN, meaning way way less than fair market value.  

Furthermore, even with classic car insurance they would not approve a policy for me until I could provide a copy of the registration in my name, proof that every licensed driver in the household has a primary vehicle and is insured, photos of the car from a bunch of angles, photo of the odometer and a few other bits.  Then an underwriter would review, and if approved I’d have a policy after I make a payment.  Which means after delivery I would have the car for at least a few weeks in my garage uninsured, or at best temporarily insured with USAA with the risk of a significant financial loss to me if I suffer a total loss of the car, but with liability coverage.  And I need to make sure the car is fully insured during transport to my house.

I’ve got a few more calls to make, Hagerty is next.




Jon, thanks for the update.

This differs A LOT from what I was told when I first insured our car with CSAA (almost nine years ago, now), so it's probably time to call my agent and go over all the terms again.

CSAA (in Norcal) is a different entity from AAA in Socal, and different markets can significantly affect the coverage offered by even the same company, but I guess I still need to see if things have changed here, too.


FWIW I insured both my kits with Grundy which is Philadelphia Insurance. Called them when I first got the bogus MG TD-on-a-VW-pan almost 12 years ago and they covered it no sweat for what I paid for it ($3500) and then raised the value every year after. The liability coverage is standard MD $100k/300k as I recall. The original annual premium on it was about $100 and I think it's up over $200 now, maybe less? Car must be garaged and can only be used for car shows and pleasure driving. And also I can drive it to work now and then.

While building the Spyder I got that covered as well, and they covered the car before it had an official VIN (me not knowing what the state automobile authorities would ultimately want to title it with). I sent them photos of what I had and they covered it for what I paid, agreed value, which I increased as the car got closer to done. Same terms as the other car.

The Spyder's market value is a lot more than the TD (see my For Sale ad), so the bill for both cars is now a bit steep: I think it was $517 for the coming year. But as Mitch notes, most of what we're paying the premium for is backstopping us (or our heirs) in the event things go sideways and someone gets hurt or killed. The value of our vehicles is as a rounding error on the cost of a serious emergency medical event.

I've never yet had a claim so I can't speak to that, but I have dealt with their folks exclusively over the phone and in each and every case the wait to talk to someone was zero and the person I spoke with was savvy and pleasant. They know what we're doing and they are here to facilitate it.

@edsnova I'd read my declaration page, VERY CAREFULLY. When things happen and they have to pay, that declaration will spell out exactly what is covered and under what specific conditions. Drive it to work? NO payout. Dinner, movie, milk? Nope, nada.

I called and spoke with someone at Grundy back in 2005 when I first put my Spyder on the road.

They told me in no uncertain terms: parade and car show use ONLY. Maybe very sparse pleasure driving, but no grocery stops, no taking the wife to dinner, and certainly NEVER to work. I asked about all this.

Of course, it is possible that coverage is different in our different states, but I doubt it's that different.

I wonder if there is any "wink, wink, nod, nod" in your conversations with Grundy?

That phone call I made to Grundy sealed the deal, I called Hagerty and have not looked back.

I'm paying almost $600 for the Spyder, with 45k coverage(which apparently needs to be increased). Add $300 for the Cayman($20k), which also needs to be upped.

It's worth it for the agreed value, excellent service I've received(3 payouts), and low deductible($100). Plus that awesome magazine.

Last edited by DannyP

I’m happy with the information I found scouring Hagerty’s website, and the answers I received to the questions I asked of the Hagerty rep who took my call today.

What I liked…

  • The agent looked up VMC’s website while we were on the phone so he could see what I was buying, asked me what options I choose.  He also  jotted down my off-menu options.  I assume this was to verify the value I was using for requested ‘agreed’ value was justified.  He was satisfied.
  • Hagerty’s website described use restrictions using language I could live with, and their answers to my questions asked today contained greater detail then answers I got from AAA or Classic Collectors.  Yes, I know what matters will be the written policy, declarations and exclusions.  But when I asked about occasional drives to work I was told ‘no more than 20x per year’ and I’m covered.  I asked about letting someone else drive it, I was told as long as less than 6x per year (each person), if more frequent they should be named on the policy, and they need my permission to drive, and they need to be at least 29 years old (if 26 or less, they should be named on the policy).  When I asked about very occasional non-garaged overnight parking (such as SLO gathering), I was told that was OK although I did sense a bit of cringing.
  • Unlike what the AAA agent told me, no problem lining up a policy before the car is delivered and before I have an opportunity to register it in my name.  So I will have confidence I’m covered while being transported by a carrier (who will also be licensed and insured).

As I sit now, I’m choosing Hagerty, not necessarily because I’ve concluded they are the best, but they are checking off my needs and I don’t feel I need to research further.  I will print out all statements made on their website about use restrictions, my notes of all phone conversations with their reps, and I will certainly read the details of the printed policy with great care.  

I will also keep a driving log.  I was thinking about this for purposes of tracking car performance, issues, noises that I hear, etc. as my way to bond with the car and to learn.  I’m now thinking it would be a great way to prove my compliance with restrictions if the need ever arose.

I’m gonna stop worrying about this topic.

I know this is late but I just saw the thread. I have had Hagerty for all of my collector cars for many years. I had someone crash into the side of my GT40 replica last fall while I was going through a 4 way stop. I distracted driver slammed into the side of my beautiful fiberglass bodied car and then jump out and start screaming at me that I had run the stop sign. Luckily the gas station on the corner had a camera that caught the accident on video. It clearly shows me stopped and waiting my turn to proceed through the intersection. As I was midway through the intersection a car to my right takes off and slams into me right rear tire and quarter of the car. The car was undriveable and had to be towed away on a roll back. Then the fun started as I had to fight with the company Hagerty subs their claims out too. It took almost 4 months to get the car repaired and at the end the body shop's bill was almost $400.00 higher than what Hagerty agreed to pay. The only way I was going to get my car was to pay the extra and then try to get it back from Hagerty's bull dog claim company. This $400 was over and above the $500.00 deductible they told me I wouldn't have to pay since the accident was the other driver's fault. I did finally get the $400.00 but never did get the $500.00 deductible. First rule to remember, Insurance companies are not out to help you they are not your friend, they are profit at all cost entities.

If you live in a cave without television you may not have noticed Auto Insurance companies never talk about customer service or how great they are at settling claims. It is all jokes and odd ball characters and telling you they have a lower price. The fact is there is almost no difference in price between any of the companies. Where there might be is if you rates have crept up over many years you may be getting screwed by your loyalty. I hit a car during a blizzard a couple of years ago that was parked on the street. Where I live it is illegal to park on the street during snow conditions. Yet I was blamed. The roads were very slick and I had to stop because of a blockage in the road and simply slid sideways on the ice. Hardly my fault.

@Jimmy V. posted:

First rule to remember, Insurance companies are not out to help you they are not your friend

This is why the Insurance Agent system came to be.

In an ideal scenario, the agent acts as a buffer and advocate between the insurance adjuster (who wants to pay nothing), and the customer (who may or may not understand the particular liability laws in a particular state).

Haggerty has no agents that I know of. I understand the drive to eliminate agents. I never saw the value in them as a younger man. They are a layer of additional cost, and when things are going well, they don't add a lot of value to the equation.

It's when things are not going well that having another advocate reveals its value. An agent may not even be able to effect any change - but at a minimum, they can get information regarding what is happening and why. This information is generally exceedingly hard to come by, unless you are very persistent or are able to speak directly with the claims department. Paying an agent his commission is a lot cheaper than having a lawyer on retainer.

As I said above, I use SF for the Speedster, as well as my daily driver and the real estate. SF has a network of agents who sell no other product, so they are much closer to the Death Star than I can ever get. I've had a SF agent make things happen in a claim that I'd never been able to get done. The downside is that SF as a company has earned a horrible reputation over the past 40 years of being pretty stingy with property claims (like your car). They're still pretty stellar with liability, however. I'm not married to them, by any means - and they kinda' honked me off with a hail claim on one of my roofs recently, so I'm shopping. At the end of the day, you pick your poison.

An independent agent can they can steer you away from companies that are exceptionally tight-fisted as you are deciding what you want to buy. He might steer you toward a product that will make him more money, or toward a company that has a better reputation. Knowing your agent helps you get a feel for how mercenary he (or she) is. All I know is that I'll happily pay a bit more to get a bit more.

Insurance is a necessary evil. I thought the entire thing was a scam as a young punk and didn't carry any. Then I had an at-fault fender-bender, which resulted in damages (to the other car) greater than I could pay. Had my dad not stepped in, I'd have been in a world of hurt. As it was, my hubris cost me my senior season of football. I had to quit the team to get a job at the Mobil service station to pay off the accident.

Insurance companies are not your friend, but they assume liability for you, and there are a lot of people who are trying to scam them. I've got zero love for the system, but as I've been saying from the start of the conversation - it's the liability that can ruin your life forever. I'd rather not fight them to get Glasruit paint instead of Sikkens, but this is minor in the big scheme of things.

Liability coverage, and if there are exemptions that you fall outside of - those are the holes that need to be closed up.

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