I just bought Koni rear shocks and found the fit a bit off. Specifically, the bottom of the shock is 2mm too wide for the mount.
I was thinking I may grind 1mm off each side. Has anyone seen this before?
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Others have purchased Koni 80-1787's and had zero fitment issues. How did you determine the 80-2149 were the correct shocks?
P.S. - I have no personal experience with fitting Koni shocks on my Speedster, just what I've read here.
80-1787 are for the front. 80-2149 for the rear on IRS cars. I actually read on a post here (SOC) that 80-2149 were correct. Also confirmed with JBugs and Koni. But I knew nothing with these cars is straight forward.
@JoelP posted:80-1787 are for the front. 80-2149 for the rear on IRS cars. I actually read on a post here (SOC) that 80-2149 were correct. Also confirmed with JBugs and Koni. But I knew nothing with these cars is straight forward.
Sounds like you researched it enough Joel. I never heard anyone mention having to do what you're doing but that doesn't mean anything either. Could be because of the IRS rear since so many of these are swing axle.
If I had to guess, some previous owner installed some other shocks at one time that required spacers on either side of the shock mount, and neglected to use them. They then tightened down the bolts and drew the sheet metal shock mounts together. Post a picture of you lower shock mount.
@Ll-Rick I have a new VMC. I’ll take a picture, nonetheless.
Isn’t my car, but this is exactly what mine looks like.
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I think what @LI-Rick was getting at, was, If you took a picture, maybe from underneath looking up, we'd be able to see if your shock mounting area was bent in.
If this is the case, bending it back out wouldn't be too hard, instead of grinding on a shock eye.
My guess is Rick's guess. Don't grind the shocks. Cut a piece of half inch threaded rod a little longer than the mount is wide (or use a deck carriage bolt). Feed it through one side and put a washer on the inside, then a nut, then another nut and another washer and turn them with a 3/4-inch wrench until there's one washer and nut on the inside edge of each side of the mount. Hold the rod steady with something and turn those inside nuts tighter to open up the shock mount.
@edsnova That’s a wonderful idea Ed!!!
@edsnova posted:My guess is Rick's guess. Don't grind the shocks. Cut a piece of half inch threaded rod a little longer than the mount is wide (or use a deck carriage bolt). Feed it through one side and put a washer on the inside, then a nut, then another nut and another washer and turn them with a 3/4-inch wrench until there's one washer and nut on the inside edge of each side of the mount. Hold the rod steady with something and turn those inside nuts tighter to open up the shock mount.
Exactly Ed. I’ve seen this happen before, easy fix.
Shazam!
Ironically, this makes me wonder how hard it will be to install a rear sway bar. All the 69 IRS rear suspension videos I’ve seen show a different type of shock mount - this is where the ends of the sway bar attach, no?
That said, does anyone know to what year/model VW these shock mounts belong?
I’m my admittedly limited experience, I’ve only seen them on VMC speedsters.
OMG! I see them on 69 irs beetles and 71+ super beetles. Also, I think I saw a post where @Gordon Nichols had a pic of his trailing arm from a 1969 vw sedan that looked the same. I’m a bit mixed up, so I’ll keep researching. But interesting that videos are conflicting. You live, you learn.
By the way.......That little extension of the inside tube is there for a reason. To allow slight movement in all directions of the shock when it's doing its job of dampening the up and down action of the torsion bars. Suspension travel isn't only linear. I have seen off road cars pound that rubber bushing right out of the shock within 5 miles of the starting line because of improper geometric alignment and orientation of the shock to the suspension travel. Had you ground off those little protrusions, it wouldn't have been long before something metallic would have broken. like the mount itself or the end of the shock. It's possible you would have heard more road noise being transferred to the body as well because of the metal to metal contact. Good thing you asked about this before you went and ground off those little protrusions........Bruce
Thanks, Bruce. I’ve already learned that these cars can be a bit finicky, so no point in suffering in silence. I really appreciate everyone’s assistance on this. Hopefully the fronts won’t be a problem.
That said, do you (or anyone else for that matter) if there are any issues with the rear sway bar installation because of this particular IRS setup? I've seen posts, but now I'm a bit hesitant without seeing pics.
@JoelP posted:That said, do you (or anyone else for that matter) if there are any issues with the rear sway bar installation because of this particular IRS setup?
There is no "particular" IRS setup - the rear end is either IRS or not, there is no variation year to year. To the question, a rear swaybar on an IRS car is a good idea - IF you have a front bar.
Thanks, @Stan Galat I'm planning on installing both. I've seen ton's of pics and discussions regarding the front, so I'm relatively comfortable with the potential pitfalls there. Now, it's the research into the rear that I want to exhaust before incorporating that data into my project plan.
First, yes I used to run Koni shocks all around and after many years I got tired of a bit harsher ride (although they were great shocks) so I went for a set of KYB shocks and saw a minor ride improvement. One shock at the bottom was a tighter fit than the other side because some Moron had not installed the spacer washers before me and distorted the mount like yours.
I measured where the centerline of the shock should be and used flat washers between the mount (on the diagonal arm) and the lower shock metal bushing to get everything centered. IIRC, it was an unequal number of washers per side of the shock, and it was different between sides of the car, too, because the mounts had been distorted differently, probably by two different Morons over time. In hindsight, I should have used @edsnova's trick to spread the mount back out. Actually, that's probably pretty common on a 56 year old car with eleventy-seven-billion miles on it.
Next, "are (there) any issues with the rear sway bar installation because of this particular IRS setup?"
That depends on the sway bar used, but no - there aren't any big issues. Some mount to the car frame in towards the middle with the ends linked to the lower shock mount (with longer bolts). Others, like Sway-Away, mount to the torsion bar tube and then to the lower shock mount (with longer bolts). Once you position the bar up in there by hand it becomes obvious how and where it wants to be mounted.
As Rick mentioned, VW never changed the rear suspension after 1969, although 1969 itself is unique for having two spring plates per side, just like the Porsche 924/944. That went to a single spring plate per side in 1970 and been that way ever since. Nothing else changed - Same diagonal arms and so forth.
Either bar works and I don't see an advantage to either. Some drivers prefer to have adjustable links from the bar to the lower shock mount but that isn't necessary, either, unless you're tracking the car (and know what you're doing to set it up).
If you can find them, 5/8" (16mm) bars front and rear are perfect, but most of the houses only sell 3/4" (19mm) - Those are fine, but give a tad stiffer ride.
Happy shopping!
@edsnova posted:My guess is Rick's guess. Don't grind the shocks. Cut a piece of half inch threaded rod a little longer than the mount is wide (or use a deck carriage bolt). Feed it through one side and put a washer on the inside, then a nut, then another nut and another washer and turn them with a 3/4-inch wrench until there's one washer and nut on the inside edge of each side of the mount. Hold the rod steady with something and turn those inside nuts tighter to open up the shock mount.
Perfect, except I'd use a bolt so you could hold it or turn it easier. Go to Tractor Supply, they sell hardware by weight, get cheap grade 5(silver color) stuff. It might cost you $5.
Not sure how VMC mount the front bumper but on many (CMC/FF) the bumper brackets may need to be cut and rewelded to clear the front anti-sway bar.
Ok. I got the carriage bolt and am all prepped to do the shocks; however, I decided to do some fabricating/modifying of some VW fog light brackets to install the Marchal fog lamps I bought months ago. Shocks will have to wait til tomorrow night. Sometimes you just want to create, right?
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Oh...Absolutely Joel ! Repairs are boring !.............Bruce
Don't forget, you have to give the car a test drive to make sure the brackets hold.
BTW, Joel, do you do your repairs/tweaking on your car in that parking garage? That'd be interesting.
@Carlos G Test drive will be tomorrow when temps are not insane. By then, the Loctite will be more than fully cured too.
And yes, all are done on the floor of a commercial garage in the middle of the night or starting at 4am in the morning. You can’t imagine the logistics involved in doing even the simplest jobs. I can’t wait to get my own garage.
I can only imagine the royal PITA working in an area like that. All your projects have to be started and done within a specific time frame.
Then there's always that ONE tenant, that lives in every building or neighborhood, that just can't mind his own damn business. I guess you haven't met him yet. LOL
It's nice and clean though.
"And yes, all are done on the floor of a commercial garage in the middle of the night or starting at 4am in the morning".
Now that's what I call having the "madness". Good for you Joel. Glad you are enjoying the tinkering. It's the second best part of owning these cars.
I have met that tenant, and she’s a nightmare. However, all the garage attendants like the car so much they don’t care when she complains. That’s the value of taking some of them for 20-minute drives now and again.
Some years back, I was asked to help a member of the Boston area 356/550 club get his car running so he could sell it. It happened to be a 550 and it was in a parking garage in Charlestown, MA, literally a quarter mile away from the USS Constitution, aka “Old Ironsides”.
I found it on the bottom level of a 6-story parking garage with 2 levels above ground (as high as you could go in that historic neighborhood ) and four levels below ground. That put that bottom level about 30’ below the low tide line of the harbor, just across the street. 😳
The car was covered with blankets and tarps and looked like it had been there for years (and it HAD!) but once the covers were off it looked a little dusty, but still pretty good.
So, I show up with fresh gas, spare parts, HD Jumper cables and lots of tools, along with a new battery from the owner, and got it running well enough that another guy could drive it out of there to a place north of Boston that would prep it for sale.
I drove out of there thinking that it’s a whole ‘nuther world, keeping your classic in a Parking Garage……
Yeah. It’s all about planning and having a strong back. The worst is realizing you forgot something and having to pack up your entire project, just to unpack it all over again a few days later. Oh, and a willingness to lie in any liquid that happens to be on the ground helps.
Dude. I can't even. My hat is off.
I worked on cars in an unheated barn when I was a teenager. A couple of years later, I lived in an apartment and replaced the head on a Dodge slant-6 under a tree in the snow... but that was a long time ago.
In this culture, people measure wealth in weird ways (how many zeros are in your investment statement, how many people work for you, how early you retired, etc.). For me, I knew I'd made it (beyond my wildest imagining) when I had A/C and a 2-post lift in my shop.
Jay Leno? He's rich. Seinfeld too. Elon? I dunno - I've never seen his garage, but he keeps talking to me about BEVs, so I'm not so sure.
Regardless, I can't imagine trying to own/work on something as idiosyncratic as one of these plastic fantastics without a dedicated, heated, and now of late, (because my pooie don't stinky) air-conditioned space. My daughter calls garages "car holes", but mine is set up nearly as nice as my living space (heated floors, A/C, two lifts, epoxy floors, a 4x8 ft picture of my car at full boogie on the Dragon, more light than the average operating room, etc.). It's definitely still a work space, but it's one nobody minds being in.
Honestly, I'm probably still living in the People's Republic of Hellinois because my shop is here - if it wasn't, I'd probably strap my elderly mother in the back of my jacked up F150 like Granny Clampett and move us to a place with a better climate and more sane politics. I don't need a "cement pond", but I definitely want a floor with 6" of concrete and rebar on 24" centers and I've got that here. I'm still working so I can continue to write off this space and these tools as a deductible expense. I hope they don't make me stop. You'll never take me alive, copper.
It's said that tools and opposable thumbs are what separate us from the great apes - but if I'm forced to work on stuff in a Fred Flintstone cave, I'm really just a primate who shaves. Civilization isn't owning an iPhone 15 - it's enough LED lighting to see what the heck I'm doing.
Conditioned and dedicated work spaces full of tools are the hallmarks of civilization. Did I say that? I think I said that.
It's not the guy who dies with the most toys who wins. But I'm going out on a limb here to say that it's very possible that the guy with the most tools and the nicest shop has already won. I may not be Leno-winning, but it's a long road back to that 5 deg barn.
I'm not sure how a guy owns and operates a contraption like these one of these clown cars without his own space, but if you can - you're a manlier man than I am.
If anybody needs me, I'll be setting up a gofundme for Joel's future garage. Nobody should have to live like that.
Long about July 1st I'm wishing I had A/C in my garage. Heat, I can live without here, but A/C, no way (and yet I do). Sigh...
Still, I have my own work and storage space for three cars and my tools are close by, so my hat's off to you @JoelP.
Two words, Laner. Mini. Split. Or one word if you're a hairy-chested pipefigther. Just say, "minisplit".
Your utility doubtless has spiffs for buying one.
@Lane Anderson posted:Long about July 1st I'm wishing I had A/C in my garage. Heat, I can live without here, but A/C, no way (and yet I do). Sigh...
Still, I have my own work and storage space for three cars and my tools are close by, so my hat's off to you @JoelP.
Lane I have heat and central AC in the townhouse garage but I have seen this unit work well ... 10000 BTU Portable Air Conditioner 3-in-1 Quiet AC Unit with Fan & Dehumidifier 6473511461570 | eBay
Hmmm... May need to make some space although the lack of insulation and sheetrock (and ceiling) in the shop means it'll be inefficient.
@Lane Anderson posted:Hmmm... May need to make some space although the lack of insulation and sheetrock (and ceiling) in the shop means it'll be inefficient.
Baby steps, Lane.
Rock and insulate it first, then A/C. Also, figure 20- 30 btu/ sq ft (and I'd figure it heavy in Charleston) for your cooling, assuming you're insulated. Alan's 10,000 btu unit is good for about 333- 500 sq ft, which is a 1 to 2-car garage.
Don't underestimate the worth of insulation. My little 19' square garage with 7' ceiling cools just fine with an 8000 btu window unit, permanently mounted in the north wall. I am in the Northeast though.
The south wall is half garage door and half stick built. 6" studs and fiberglass there, plus 2" pink foam in the overhead door. 6" in the ceiling. The rest is concrete block.
I used white paneling on the ceiling, saved painting it. Installing seven 4 foot LED lights changed the game.
Heat is electric, 10,000 watts worth, but I don't use it much.
Once warm or cool it takes very little to maintain the comfort level. Right now it is 75 degrees and 50% humidity, I have an extra sensor for my weather station in there. I turned the AC off at 6 last night.
Outside is 60, but 94% humidity. It's gonna be well into the 90s today, but not in the garage.
It's a one-car workshop/garage of no more than 300 sq ft. My reluctance to do the insulation/sheetrock is that we hope to be moving to 2-3 years and I'm cheap. 