Rock for 300 sq ft would be $150 for 10 sheets of 4x8x5/8 moisture proof, and another $50 to rent the drywall jack and buy a box of screws, but you do you, Lane.
Adding value to a place you hope to sell almost never hurts.
In leu of S' rock, taping and spackling when I did my home shop in PA I used R 19 and 7/16 OSB board ( it was cheap then) and I could hang stuff anywhere on the 716 sq ft of walls. The formula was three of use...burgers, barkers and Coors Lite.
7/16 OSB is no longer cheap, and nobody said anything about taping it.
... but you're 100% correct - OSB was always the preferred interior wall cladding for a garage, until "the recent troubles" made all panelized wood (plywood, et al) stupidly expensive.
Guys, just spitballin' here but I don't think Lane's style is DiY drywall for cost of materials. It's probably $8,000 to insulate and rock a garage interior down there and the cheapest guy will promise to start in 90 days but still be miles away in six months.
- Ok. ALL 4 SHOCKS ARE DONE!!!!!! Finished at 12:30am in the loading dock: the concierge did me a favor.
- Thanks @edsnova for the advice. Totally worked and only took a few minutes.
- Hopefully I'll get to test drive the car tonight or tomorrow AM; it's been in the mid-90's with humidity in the mid-70's, with a "feels like" in the low-100's.
- Installation notes:
- Front and rear shocks adjusted 2.5 turns (medium setting) - will likely change after sway bars installed next weekend
- Rear shock nuts are 19mm (top and bottom)
- Front shock top nuts (VMC stock) are 14mm
- Front shock bottom nut is 19mm
- Replacement Koni rear shock (80 2149) hardware: reuse stock hardware
- Replacement Koni front shock (80 1787) hardware
- Resuse stock BOTTOM hardware
- New TOP hardware (comes with shock) are 2x 17mm nuts
- NOTE: No extra hardware is needed to install Koni shocks, unless you need the 19mm carriage bolt, 2x nuts and 2x washers to alter the rear shock tower footing
@JoelP love the Marchal’s, by the way! Beautiful car!
@edsnova posted:Guys, just spitballin' here but I don't think Lane's style is DiY drywall for cost of materials. It's probably $8,000 to insulate and rock a garage interior down there and the cheapest guy will promise to start in 90 days but still be miles away in six months.
He does not have enough skilled labor down there. Kidding aside, the Spanish took over this trade years ago. It’s amazing to watch 5ft Latinos carry sheetrock like it’s Kleenex. My son is in the trades and said he runs into a guy that does it with one arm. He does not have the other arm. 
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@30West Thanks. Next is the fabrication of knobs, bezels and switches. Gotta keep creative to not get bogged down with technical hobgoblins - parking brake is the next demon I must slay.
Since this is a thread about suspension, I figured I'd ask if anyone has installed a front sway bar on a VMC speedster?
This thread (https://www.speedsterowners.co...sway-bar-way-too-low) showed me a ton. But I'd like to know if anyone has any first-hand experience with VMC and sway bars. Specifically whether there will be any frabrication required.
JoelP. I just saw the BAT ad mentioned in another post that shows a late model VMC speedster and it has the sway bars installed front and back. It shows the install in great detail, so hopefully this link will help answer your question.
https://bringatrailer.com/list...peedster-replica-15/
My speedster is current being built by VMC and I ordered the factory sway bars too.
@pkdfw I saw it and the fact that is sits so low is not good. Figured there’s gotta be a better way.
@pkdfw posted:JoelP. I just saw the BAT ad mentioned in another post that shows a late model VMC speedster and it has the sway bars installed front and back. It shows the install in great detail, so hopefully this link will help answer your question.
https://bringatrailer.com/list...peedster-replica-15/
My speedster is current being built by VMC and I ordered the factory sway bars too.
Are you having a swingaxle or IRS car built? It has been the general consensus in the VW world for many years not to put a rear sway bar on a swingaxle car, but to use a camber compensator. If IRS, use a rear sway bar.
@JoelP posted:@pkdfw I saw it and the fact that is sits so low is not good. Figured there’s gotta be a better way.
Again... there is nothing specific to a VMC speedster and a sway-bar (as opposed to a sway bar on any other pan-based car) - so threads about how/what to do with a CMC or VS or JPS or Thunder Ranch car all apply.
You're 100% correct - thereIS a better way than the upside-down stock front bar mounted on the BaT auction car, and it's been discussed here many times for nearly 20 years.
@WOLFGANG has put up the picture of the notched front bumper bracket probably 50 times. Maybe one more for the new guys?
If you'd rather not wait, a site-search will bring up at least a dozen threads.
@LI-Rick posted:Are you having a swingaxle or IRS car built? It has been the general consensus in the VW world for many years not to put a rear sway bar on a swingaxle car, but to use a camber compensator. If IRS, use a rear sway bar.
^ That. If it's a swing-axle car, a rear sway bar is a death wish.
Ll-Rick and Stan. My VMC speedster will have an IRS setup so I should be good there.
JoelP. I also noticed how low the front sway bar was in the BAT pictures and if you look closely at one of the pictures, you'll see that the front sway bar had some scraping on the driver side too.
I'm in TX and the roads are pretty flat here so the height of the sway bar may work for me. Also, Greg is installing the sway bars for me from the factory, so the front install may have the notch to give it more room.
Worse case, if I notice it scraping a lot, I'll take off the front to see how it'll handle with just the rear sway bar.
I'm not too worried. It looks like modifications are 100% needed for the EMPI sway bar that's meant for lowered cars, because it has an upward bend. The flat EMPI sway bar (the one I bought) should be ok, but not perfect as I will lose some clearance. Still, the real problem is when folks buy the EMPI sway bar for lowered cars and install them upside down, so they are either dangerously close to the ground or (if rightside up) require modifications (as others have pointed out). I'll install mine and measure the clearance and go from there.
https://www.speedsterowners.co...or-vintage-speedster
The thread above addresses our exact questions, in the context of VS speedsters; so, all the answers should apply. Specifically, @Jack Crosby emphatically explains that he needed no modifications for his sway bars. This is why I figured I'd first try to install, measure the clearance, drive, then decide whether to modify.
Make sure you measure the clearance with the car back down on the ground so the suspension is under load. Otherwise it will look like you have plenty of clearance.
@pkdfw posted:Ll-Rick and Stan. My VMC speedster will have an IRS setup so I should be good there.
JoelP. I also noticed how low the front sway bar was in the BAT pictures and if you look closely at one of the pictures, you'll see that the front sway bar had some scraping on the driver side too.
I'm in TX and the roads are pretty flat here so the height of the sway bar may work for me. Also, Greg is installing the sway bars for me from the factory, so the front install may have the notch to give it more room.
Worse case, if I notice it scraping a lot, I'll take off the front to see how it'll handle with just the rear sway bar.
Do not.
Sway bars do real things and have real consequences. Driving the car with just the rear bar will feel absolutely fine until (unless) you need to steer it quickly around some obstacle. Then you will loop it.
The reason: A front bar flattens cornering and makes the car understeer. That is, it wants to turn less. It plows.
A rear bar makes it corner flatter and makes the car oversteer. It wants to turn more. It spins out.
You always put a front bar on first, then add a (smaller) rear bar and adjust* them both until the car just understeers a little. You never run just a rear bar with no front bar.
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*You can adjust some bars with holes in for the end links. The hardness of the bushing material can adjust it. Sometimes you have to just change the bar out for a thicker or thinner one. Everything depends on the weight of the car, the weight distribution within the chassis, the tire compound, the air pressures, the alignment and the surface on which the car is being driven...
I understand the enthusiasm to try new things, because I was a guy who came into this hobby (23 years ago now) with the idea that VW people were all pretty backward, and what the hobby suffered from was a lack of new ideas. I tried many, many things that people advised against. A few of them worked out (through liberal applications of blood, sweat, and tears), but the overwhelming majority of them turned into really expensive scrap metal. It turns out, there really isn't much new under the sun. Some bright mind somewhere has already tried everything any of us are going to consider. The well-worn path is the sweet-spot.
This website, rather than allowing people a forum to talk about their new ideas, might be better used to listen to people who have already done the heavy lifting a long time ago. Please listen on the sway-bar thing.
Most times I just let stuff go because I get it - people like to make their own mistakes. But sometimes, suggestions rise to the level of just being dangerous. Leaving the front bar off, and putting one on the rear of a car that is already tail-happy is a death-wish.
Don't do it.
If you can't figure out how to run a front sway-bar (and really, there have been dozens of threads regarding how to do it), then don't run the back one at all. As a matter of fact - unless you plan to drive like a white-trash hick-town wannabe boy-racer, just figure on leaving the rear bar off. You won't need it, for sure. I run a rear bar, but there are times I wonder if it's fitting the ethos of the car. Regardless, I don't think I'd run one unless you have a 3/4" front bar, and probably some stiffer rear torsion bars (I do and I do).
Start with a stock front bar (1/2"). Notch the bumper bracket to put it on right side up. Drive the car. See if it's happy or not. Then step up to a 3/4" bar. Observe if the car is closer to neutral (it never will be fully so). If you like it, and you'd like to be able to rotate the rear with throttle (and you need a decent engine to attempt to do that in a controlled way) - then try the rear bar.
Throwing everything at the car at once is a recipe for never knowing what any of it is doing. Start with good rubber and work from there.
Forewarned is forearmed.
@Stan Galat posted:Start with a stock front bar (1/2"). Notch the bumper bracket to put it on right side up. Drive the car. See if it's happy or not. Then step up to a 3/4" bar. Observe if the car is closer to neutral (it never will be fully so). If you like it, and you'd like to be able to rotate the rear with throttle (and you need a decent engine to attempt to do that in a controlled way) - then try the rear bar.
Or, you could make your own 5/8" bar like I did(actually 16mm from an early 911, but much modified). They used to be available back in the 70s and maybe the 80s. They were a really good street compromise. More than a little wimpy stock bar but not so aggressive and hard riding as a 3/4".
But NEVER, EVER run just a rear bar with no front. That's just stupid. And NEVER, EVER run a conventional anti-roll bar on the rear of a swing axle car. EVER! In the rear I run camber-limiting straps that prevent the rear from going into positive camber, limiting the jacking effect.
This is one instance where listening to the experienced guys is a good thing.
Ok. Front sway bar installed. 5” of ground clearance. NO MODIFICATIONS!!
And allowing for 1 7/8” of upward travel.
I can probably flip the bar - losing 1” of ground clearance - and not see clearance issues while gaining another inch of vertical travel clearance. Of course, I’ll try this only if needed.
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@Stan Galat posted:Again... there is nothing specific to a VMC speedster and a sway-bar (as opposed to a sway bar on any other pan-based car) - so threads about how/what to do with a CMC or VS or JPS or Thunder Ranch car all apply.
You're 100% correct - thereIS a better way than the upside-down stock front bar mounted on the BaT auction car, and it's been discussed here many times for nearly 20 years.
@WOLFGANG has put up the picture of the notched front bumper bracket probably 50 times. Maybe one more for the new guys?
If you'd rather not wait, a site-search will bring up at least a dozen threads.
Wow; the notched front bumper bracket; if I am not mistaken I believe I came up with that idea close to 20 years ago when the time came to install a front anti sway bar on my then fresh from the shop VS. The car came with none. At the time I found a 3/4" unit from Bugpack that was meant for lowered cars and had that slight upturn; hence the need for the notches so that it could travel up and down. Would've been easier to just use a stock Beetle bar; these cars are lighter and I believe the travel is not so far up if I remember correctly. I was always worried about that modification's effect on the structural integrity of those brackets (especially in the case of a minor accident, because major accidents in these cars are totally out of the realm of discussion as you well know) so I decided to add steel plates on the sides to help in that regard (not sure about the effectiveness of that). I didn't post photos of my car but after seeing mine a friend who also has a Speedster replica decided to also do it to his car and we posted photos of his finished product. Not sure if those photos got deleted at one point when this site went through a makeover. I believe some of those posts from back then might still exist under "Former Member".
Does anyone know how much overhead clearance is needed to avoid hitting the bumper bracket? Some pics show mods allowing for what looks like 3 - 4 inches of upward travel, while others show what looks like 1 - 2 inches.
@JoelP posted:And allowing for 1 7/8” of upward travel.
... meaning you have less than 2" of suspension travel. If you want to actually drive the car, you'll need more than that.
Thanks @Stan Galat for saving me from a disastrous test drive. Looks like I’ll be flipping it.
Stan knows...
@Stan Galat posted:... meaning you have less than 2" of suspension travel. If you want to actually drive the car, you'll need more than that.
Not necessarily. What is the radius of the curve the sway bar travels? Compare that to the distance from the torsion bar to the ball joint. I think it's about a 2:1 ratio, so you have 3.5" of down travel. If the bar doesn't hit at full suspension hang with the shocks at full extension, you're good.
Thanks @DannyP So, are you saying I can simply jack up the front end to see whether the sway bar hits the bumper bracket once the shocks are fully extended? That would be so much easier than waiting to hear/feel it happen going down the road.
@JoelP Jus wonderin, after you installed the sway bar, did you roll the car down the driveway or better yet go for a slow cruise through the neighborhood? This would let the suspension come back to it's natural place after being jacked up.
Yup. Clearance was the same because I took the pics after I’d compressed the shocks as much as possible by kneeling on the front bumper. Measured again after my drive to Harbor Freight. Same.
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@JoelP posted:....So, are you saying I can simply jack up the front end to see whether the sway bar hits the bumper bracket once the shocks are fully extended?...
Yes.
And something else I hadn't really thought about before:
If the sway bar hits the bumper bracket on the rebound while braking hard on a rough surface, wouldn't this also contribute to the front brakes locking up early in a panic stop?
Light weight on the front end is usually given most of the blame for that, but this seems like another relevant factor I've never heard discussed.
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Doubtful that would happen. Under hard braking the suspension compresses a LOT. In order for the suspension to extend all the way under braking you'd have to be airborne.
The frt. sway bar on my speedster would hit occasionally creating a rattling sound. Instead of notching the bumper brackets for clearance, I just installed a short, split, piece of rubber hose around the brackets to insulate the rattle.........Bruce
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Yeah Danny, but I'm thinking something like this prevents the suspension from 'extending all the way'. It stops the suspension from being a 'suspension'. Once the bar hits the bumper support, the wheel is basically attached to the frame (on the rebound, before the weight of the car comes down on it again).
The wheel doesn't have to lift off the ground to start sliding. If the downforce on it is suddenly reduced and it was already just on the verge of sliding, it will slide.
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Mitch, under braking the nose dives. The suspension compresses. But the swaybar hits—might hit—when the suspension is going the opposite way. The unsprung way. When Cory launches the Hoopty, for example.
Swaybar interference with the bumper bracket would not affect braking.
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@edsnova posted:....Mitch, under braking the nose dives. The suspension compresses. But the swaybar hits—might hit—when the suspension is going the opposite way. The unsprung way....
Ach du lieber, I knew I should never have opened this box.
Yes, the swaybar does hit going the opposite way. But we do not live in a smoove world. There are ruts and potholes along the way.
Maybe I should back up a little here. Most rural and semi-rural roads around here were last paved 30 years ago or more, some a lot more. I find myself weaving down these streets trying to avoid the worst of it. And for some reason, the worst of it is usually just before intersections, maybe 50-100 feet before the stop line, where you're doing the last of your braking. I often find my front brakes locking up and the tires chirping just as I'm coming to a stop. And usually at very slow speeds at that point. After all, I'm no hoonigan. The wheel has locked up unexpectedly because I hit one of these rough patches. Not gravel, but bumpy paving. Never happens in my other cars, or in any car I've ever owned before, even before ABS came along.
So, yeah, I'm braking and the weight has transferred forward, and the front suspension is generally compressed, but compressed to different degrees as the wheel moves up and down over the surface irregularities. The tire to road patch is alternately weighted more and weighted less. It's at the LESS point that the tire chirps, and may even slide. We do not live in a smoove world.
So, I'm wondering if interfering with normal spring-controlled wheel motion over surface irregularities would affect braking. I don't see why it wouldn't.
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Mitch's point about wheels moving independently of each other is why sway bars exist. Wheels almost never move in unison with one another. If one wheel compresses and the other unloads (as happens in every turn), a bar that close to a hard point seems to me like an invitation to issues. 1-7/8" might be enough, but my money is on "not" when it really matters.
Thanks for that explanation, Mitch. I see what you're saying now.
I'm lost here. I thought "anti sway bars" were, primarily, for helping out with undesired weight transfer when the body/chassis was rolling on its longitudinal axis. Such as in a curve or corner and any other benefit was just ancillary .........Bruce