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I remembered after I posted that Pat Downs told me that he and CB had later upgraded the Dell 40 version of that carb kit to overcome the hesitation (apparently, I wasn't the only one).  Sorry if I mislead.  As it turned out, Blackline did a great job setting up my Dells and I wasn't about to mess with them any more.  I'm happy with them right now (even though I won't be playing with the car for another 3-1/2 months). It's Sleepy-Bye time for replicas in New England, now.  

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Jim:  I had that same horizontal discharge tube setup on my 40 Dells and yes, it probably adds another 20-30 HP on a 2,110.  Maybe a tad more on your engine.  IIRC, my kit came with a set of 34mm venturiis (chokes) which were downgraded to 32s by Dave at Blackline Racing for me - he also converted them back to stock discharge tubes.  I had a slight, nagging bog as I transitioned to more throttle in the mid-range and managed to make it a bit better by doing all the wrong things (never suspecting the venturiis were wrong).  Going down one size to the 32 was a vast improvement, so remember that if you have mid-range hesitation and can't easily cure it.  Apart from that, they really produce power, especially on the mains.  If I were tracking my car I would still have those discharge tubes in there.

I also have that same DeRale cooler on my 2,110 and it has been great.  Not the most compact, but it is rugged, reasonably quiet when running the fan and holds me to 200-205F no matter what.

Glad you got that beast running and how well it's turned out.  Lotta work but the endgame payoff is really something!

I saw that on the CB website before the last time I talked to Dave. He told me no, that it was made for monster engines like Jimmy's. Going to 32's and a smaller main jet worked perfect on my ~2L motor, just like Dave said it would.

Best of all, I think I'm getting ~25-28 mpg now.

Last edited by dlearl476
@ZFNHSN posted:

Looking forward to your updates! I have the first portion of your split grind cam (86b) in a Type 1 2276 running 44 Webers and only 1.25 rockers but with a narrow LSA of 105 degrees and it is perfect for the street in my Vintage Speedster. I can drive around town in third gear (not that I wanted to even though I could). What are you running for LSA? What is the curb weight of your Puma? That is way way too too much power

Said no man ever. Lol

When I ordered the update kit for my 44 Weber's CB asked me the application the carbs would were being used on. I told them they are on a 2.8L type 4 engine with a big cam 9.5:1 CR and 48/38 ported heads. They told me that is exactly what the update kit was created for. To give great air flow and still allow the drivability of 44 weber IDF carbs. Normally the engine would be best with 48 Weber IDf or IDA's if racing only but would be a dog for city and everyday driving. The updated carbs are drivable and also breath every as big as the carb body allows. The 38mm sleeve is paper thin and the removal of the secondary venturi really opens the carbs up. Major flow. A s I said they are running and driving great.  I can see why they would not be for all engines. The kit comes with fairly big main jets (.165) which seem to be spot on for my engine. The plug electrodes are light brown in color. The kits had been out of stock for a long time and CB were telling people they had no idea of when they would have them available again. The week my motor was being finished the kits came back in stock. Good break for me. I would love to run tests with and without the carbs modified to see the actual gain in HP the kit gives. The pic below is just a little engine art. I took this pic today. It never gets old.

Type 4 2.8 L monster engine after repair 9j1

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Last edited by Jimmy V.

I managed to get mine to run "OK" using 162.5 Mains.  Those were awesome on a pair of Dell 40's with 34mm venturiis.  Get up on the mains and it really rocked and still got better than 26mpg, but it had a hesitation below 70mph so I just tended to cruise on interstates at 80+.  Worked for me.

Dave deleted the horizontal tubes, dropped the venturiis to 32s, ran the idles down from 65's to 45's and the mains from 162.5 to 130's.  It doesn't have the same "snap" when you stomp on it at 75mph, but it doesn't hesitate below 60mph any more, either, and I'm happy with them.

@Jimmy V. posted:

I took the night off working on the Type 4 Puma and plan on hitting it hard tomorrow night to finish up the oil cooler install. Then I can drive the wheels off of this thing.

I was wondering why a heater core with blower fan can't be used as an oil cooler so the engine oil heat could be used to heat the interior of the car? Makes sense to me. I would love to hear the gangs knowledge on this one.

My engine oil rarely gets hot enough to open the thermostatic valve for my oil cooler in summer, and never in spring or fall. You want the oil hot enough to circulate and lubricate properly. Too cold, it's too thick, too hot it breaks down.

I preface what i am about to say with I am in this thing to the end and it will be right and the way it should be without compromise when finished. That said last week I started noticing the signs of head to cylinder leak,,,again!!. So I whistled and out came the engine... again. Seriously it does come out in less than an hour now and the engine was stripped to a long block in another 40 minutes. I did a leak down test of each cylinder with a  100psi Moroso tester while squirting soapy water at the cylinder to head sealing area. I saw what I expecting.. plenty of big bubbles. I also could feel a large amount of air leaking from the intake valves even after popping the valve with a plastic mallet to clear any carbon an such that might have been between the valve and the valve seat. Still the valves were leaking. Between the cylinder to head leak the valve leaking and anything getting past the rings each cylinder had 18-25% leak down which is terrible of course. My goal on engines I have personally built is 2-3% max leakage on a new high performance engine.  I called AA performance the builder of the heads. (Hoffman heads and Type 4 store heads (which are made by Hoffman) were all back logged until late spring ) that is why I tried the AA heads. My engine builder and myself are baffled. He checked and double checked the heads but all the problems seem to be in the heads. Jonathan at AA was very nice when I told him of our situation and asked me to send the heads back which they should arrive on Tuesday. The short block is headed back to the builder to re-check the flatness of the cylinder seating deck just to cover all our bases. I am going to keep smiling and seeing this through to the end which when I arrive there will be a gratifying experience. I firmly believe the payoff will be just short of amazing in the amount of power I am now sure this engine is capable of. Patience is the key it appears.

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That was done at the time the heads were received by my engine builder. The weird thing is if you fill the combustion chamber with alcohol the valves do not leak a drop. I am worried that the valve seats are leaking under pressure. I am baffled by the valves leaking and the cylinder to head loint leaking when everything is square, flat and parallel. I may wind up buying a set of LE200 heads and waiting until March to get them. 

I was hesitant about posting about the ongoing problems but then thought what the heck this is real and I am going to have this engine right in the end. I realized this is a good record  going forward if I ever sell the car or engine. There will be a transparent accounting of how the engine was built and what issues occurred and how said issues were addressed and overcome. Thanks to all for the positive encouragement and support.

The heads are to be delivered to AA today. I am eager to hear what they say about the heads. I am amazed at how fast the heads  arrived at AA in Covina, Ca. coming from Louisville Ky. They heads shipped last Tuesday via Fedex Ground.

@ALB posted:

I've been on a boys offroad weekend in a buggy in hail (we were up around 4,000 ft.) at 25-30 mph.  You try to pull the peak of your rain jacket hood down enough so your cheeks and nose are protected and your hand gets it- even when small it's pretty hard-  hail really hurts at speed!

We can totally relate, asides of being worried about possible damage to the car, the pain from the hail in my hand (as I try to shield my glasses) and head was about the worst part!

On the 2017 Tour D' Hoe, cruising from Donner Pass to Lake Tahoe (50 miles) at elevation of 7,000 ft, it went from this...rick99gsx...to this within 5 minutes.... @Rick99GSXrick99gsx-6Screen Shot 2019-09-20 at 12.18.20 PM...and eventually made it safely to our hotel in Tahoe for a toast to SOC adventures and comradery!

20170908_172747_HDR-1

Once Jimmy V. finishes tweaking his monster 2786 Type 4, he'll be back in the groove for more SOC adventures (hopefully not in inclement weather)!

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Last edited by MusbJim

Update on the original topic of this thread:

The heads that were leaking from the intake valves and cylinder seating area are back with the supplier for inspection and repair. (AA Performance) The short block went back to the engine builder who stripped the pistons and cylinders off and checked the flatness of the block's cylinder seating areas. He found the side that leaked the worse to be high in the center by .005" the other side was out .003". If the heads were out by some amount this would then be added to the problem. I am committed to seeing this project through to the end and am excited to what type of performance this engine is capable of when all the issues are corrected. It had a ton of power with the heads and valves leaking I can't really imagine what this thing will have on tap with everything sealed tight. I will be running a chassis dyno session when the engine is fixed. Any guesses to the WHP the Puma will have? 

Sorry for the drift, Jim.

What's the case that you're using?  

Was it new for the build, like an AS-41 or a stock one that's been refurbished?

@Jimmy V. posted:

Update on the original topic of this thread:

The heads that were leaking from the intake valves and cylinder seating area are back with the supplier for inspection and repair. (AA Performance) The short block went back to the engine builder who stripped the pistons and cylinders off and checked the flatness of the block's cylinder seating areas. He found the side that leaked the worse to be high in the center by .005" the other side was out .003". If the heads were out by some amount this would then be added to the problem. I am committed to seeing this project through to the end and am excited to what type of performance this engine is capable of when all the issues are corrected. It had a ton of power with the heads and valves leaking I can't really imagine what this thing will have on tap with everything sealed tight. I will be running a chassis dyno session when the engine is fixed. Any guesses to the WHP the Puma will have?

It's a type 4/914 engine build, Gordon, so the case is used- I don't think anyone casts them new.

Jimmy- 2786(?) cc's, 300/310° advertised duration (258?/272? @.050") on 106° lobe centers with enough everything else to make it rev to 62-6500 rpm, measured on a chassis dyno- 218 hp at the wheels.  I know I'm repeating myself but-

                        IT'S GOING TO BE A BEAST!!!

The case came from the engine I bought from an SOC member. This build started with a $1500.00 engine that was a 2056 Raby engine that had a Raby serial number. It was known to have at least one cylinder with low compression. This may have been from the same issue I am dealing with because the engine only had 2500 miles on it. I was recently told that the cases on type 4 engines are known to warp if over heated. My engine builder wasn't aware of this and didn't deck the case halves. This is what we are setting straight now. So to answer the question it was a used Raby prepped case.

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