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I've read some years past reviews on dealings with Greg and Vintage Spyders and from a new customer perspective I would like to share my dealings with him so far.

i ordered a Spyder about 2-1/2 months ago and he has been nothing but professional and helpful so far ��.

yes there are times that he has not texted me back but keep in mind folks, he has work to do. And outside of that he has a family and a life.

running a business and making every customer happy is not an easy task.

 

I'm pretty good at reading whether someone is a bad business person or a good one and so far I give Greg Leach ���� like Siskel & Ebert style.

 

Now as far as BAD business and unprofessional immature and just downright not necessary well there are some on here I'm sure. 

Actually I'm positive because I myself have already had dealings with one.

But even with the experience I have had with someone that was not pleasant you still have to give people time to fix their mistakes and make up for past hiccups.

 

None of us are perfect, all of us make mistakes.

Some of us have grown up, and some of us still need to.

 

Only time will tell.

 

If your new to this forum and your looking for a builder of a Spyder then I can only reccomend Greg Leach at Vintage Motorcars, Stanton Ca.

I'm sure there are other builders that are great as well but I haven't dealt with any others so I can't recommend them. ��

 

Also keep this in your mind when looking to buy your Spyder.

There are manufactures who build and assemble.

And there are builders who don't manufacture.

 

Vintage Motorcars makes your car from scratch... 

Keep up the good work Greg and I look forward to my completed car.

Original Post
Well so far so good guys!
I put my 1st payment down Aug 10th.
My car was ready for paint 2-weeks ago but I opted to wait 30-days to do some personal modifications prior to paint.
But so far so good!
This looks like I should have my car for Christmas this year.
Keep in mind that when someone is building your car that it's better that they don't rush through the process.
Rome was not built in a day.
And yes I will gladly share the date of completion and also pictures etc..
Chazlink posted:

First I'm going to give the vendor 30-days from today to resolve the issues.

Remind me 30-days from now and I will be ready to discuss everything in detail.

All of us should give one another the opportunity to resolve problems or issues before going online and sharing with the planet.

Its the right thing to do.

I absolutely agree with you there Chaz. No point in flaming him online if he resolves the issue as an honest/reputable vendor would do. I appreciate your professionalism regarding this matter.

It's important to get this out there so people approach with caution..
I am one of the many customers who has had Greg Leach build them a car and was warned by countless people to not even think about doing such a thing.
I began my journey and at first what I did was I contacted previous customers who had cars built at Vintage Spyders (motorcars) whatever.
I had the idea to Lauren to what they had to say and then give Greg Leach the benefit of the doubt and let the guy build me a car. Then it began....
The truth is that Gregs employees build a nice car but as soon as Greg gets involved in assembly, handling the cars physically or dealing with a customer then this is where the business's falls hard.
I can list on this forum at least 5 local Orange County, California business's with names and phone numbers of business owners who have good reputations who warned me and shared stories of VERY bad business dealings with Greg Leach over the years.
I could go on and on about why and what happened with my own personal build with him but I might just save this for later.
The number one problem he has that will eventually sink him in his personal relationships and his business is his COMPULSIVE LYING...
I sat down before handing him any money prior to my build beginning and asked him about these people who had bad experiences with him and he told me stories and did a great job at feeding me a BS sandwich.
What's sad is that if Greg Leach had just been totally honest and polite about build times and ordering the wrong parts from Empi (I know people everywhere and they all talk) or how about the best one of all..
It's such a small world that I have to tell this one because it's so good.
Something to remember folks, Grwg Leach thinks people are idiots..Greg Leach forgets how small the world is.

When I picked up my finished Spyder I noticed a couple days later that there was a strange hazing discoloration in an area of the paint on the side of the car about 6" x 4" so I asked what it was to Greg Leach.
His response "I don't see anything" and then "well maybe alittle something".
I'm like "you can't see that?" And he said "just bring it back next month because I can't mess with it now" so I set a date to bring it back...
Meanwhile during this 30-days I have other issues like rear axle seal leaking and I ask him what warranty is and he tells me I supplied the transmission so it's not his problem but he will fix it this (one time).
By the looks of this repair he fixed it himself because he let the rear disc caliper hang from a metal line causing it to bend while he had everything apart (thanks for that Greg).
So he replaces the seal....
A couple days later it's leaking again...I take it apart and find that the seal he installed he did not tap in all the way and seat so it was not sealing properly, I tapped it the rest of the way and it's been good since.
During this day that my car sat unsafely at Vintage Motorcars he also was installing some Soyder emblem clips on passenger side front fender area..
Well naturally he also did this himself do to the fact that he obviously doesn't like to pay his employees to work on finished cars while pulling them from jobs that are unfinished.
Greg leans inside the open door and somehow chips the edge of my rocker in FOUR places (more then likely with the metal on his jeans.
Why do I know this happened there? I have a ton of pics of my car and I'm so OCD that I took pics of everything prior to it going back over there and they were not there, two of the chips even had silver touch up paint in them.
So later I find out that from this same visit where my car was chipped, rear brake line was bent, seal was replaced wrong I had other damage occur....
Somehow when he lifted my car the bottom edge of body was scratched by something it was lifted with..it just never ends right??
Actually it does and here's the best part of why not to let Greg Leach near your car...
I drive my car back to Vintage Motorcars on the day we had scheduled to do a paint/blend in area where there was discoloration.
On my way I run out of gas which was weird because the gas gauge had not even hit empty, this was fun because I had to punch my car close to a mile.
I show up for the last time in my life at Vintage Motorcars and I'm not having a good morning yet..
One of his employees comes out and is talking to me about my car and we are discussing carbs so I let him take my car around the block to feel the way it's running and he comes back.....
So Greg Leach pulls up, "good morning!" He said.. I respond "is it?" Seeing how I'm not having one yet.
Here's where Greg Leach decides to shine with his customer service skills..
I go inside and begin talking to him and mention I ran out of gas and had to push my car and how gas gauge want even on empty and he tells me when it gets to where it was to make sure I bet gas (good to know)
Then I say can you please make sure the body and paint guys tape everything off well so they don't get overspray on anything. His response "we will tape everything off the best we can but I'm not making any promises that there won't be overspray on anything"
I said what does that mean? And I said and I'm not going to notice the blend when the paint is finished right?
He said " look Charlie! You didn't pay for a 10K paint job so they will do the best they can but I'm not making any guarantees on anything"
Keep in mind he is shouting this with anger and frustration at me and tells me he's not having a good morning either...
I said what do you mean I didn't pay for a 10k paint job?? I said you have your cars painted with different quality because we never discussed any of this prior to my car being built and you never mentioned that I was paying for less quality.
He cuts me off and raises his voice and tells me again I'm not making any promises.
I said "alright man" (all this while containing myself mentally becauseall I could think about was telling him to go F&@ himself)
I turned and walked out towards my car to begin to leave with my car and he follows me and tells me " why don't you get in your car and leave"
I said nothing, I have a lot of self control so I contained it.
I got into my car and drove home...
So the story gets better....
Remember it's a small world. I run into a guy who just so happened to go by Vintage Motorcars while my car was there and was almost finished (can't reveil his company he works for or name but he is an honest guy).
So this guy saw the employees of Vintage Motorcars dealing with a situation on my car prior to it being finished and the situation focus was on the exact area of my car where the discoloration in paint was and car even had material taped and cover the entire side except the area where my discoloration was (meaning Greg Leach was well aware of this discoloration area)
He had a paint guy spray this area which means there was a touch up done to my car because something was wrong with the paint.
Again, such a small world Greg... You should have just been honest about it.
Another guy in the car industry hears that Greg Leach actually dropped something on my car accidentally and chipped it so he had to respray and area.
Now the person who told me this didn't know it was my car but it turns out it was.
So I took my car to 3-prestigious paint and body business's and had them look closely at the discolored area and they all determined same thing with 100% certainty.
There was a small chip and light sanding in that area and a small blend done.
Vintage Motorcars (Greg Leach) accidentally damaged my car, had his guys do a quick low quality touch up and when the paint cured it started to reveil itself as did the small world and industry of our love for cars.
And when I wanted it fixed I became the difficult customer asking for way too much.
If this thread gets enough attention I will share the other lies he fed me during my Spyder build.
I like my car, it's a great build and if Greg had never touched it or walked near it then it would be almost flawless.
I thabk the builders who work there for the quality fiberglass work.
The future is sad for Greg and his business because if he continues down the road of dishonestly then he will eventually lose it all.

And yes in the end Greg Leach offered to repair the paint discoloration only but after his unprofessional outburst and behavior and after I first posted something on here.

With his carelessness, dishonestly, and lack of professionalism he will not be welcome anywhere near my Spyder as long as I own it.

Nice cars, bad business...

Thanks for the heads-up, Chaz! Its stories like this that put vendor/owners like Henry Riesner, Carey Hines and Kirk Duncan in true perspective as professionals in the industry.

We all know there are two sides to every story, but I believe that a good faith effort by both parties to resolve differences would more than likely have prevented such a falling out as you experienced. It seems you tried to give Vintage Spyder the benefit of the doubt, sorry it didn't work out as hoped.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your new ride, but also take comfort in knowing there are many other excellent shop options for future maintenance & repair of your Spyder.

Welcome To The Madness, indeed! 

Last edited by MusbJim

If you had read the above mentioned issues you will see that when he has attempted to fix things he damaged the car.

He has never admitted it told me that he chipped my car during build and had an area repainted.

And after repairing poorly it had somehow become an ordeal involving me and my car not having a 10K paint job.

The fact is..

He damaged my car, he did not tell me. He fixed it poorly and when I pointed it out it became my problem that only I noticed and he was completely unaware of how it occurred.

Its dishonest business period.

And furthermore when he has handled my car as mentioned above he has damaged it in other ways.

I can even go as far as saying that he said he didn't drive my car when it was there yet my friend and business owner saw MY car driving near there while my car was there.

again, I can go on with more issues I had if you all like and we can make this thread drag on and on.

Just ask and you shall receive.

Have my car repaired at the dishonest business place where damages occurred to my car while in their care and thyme accepted zero responsibility and where I was shouted at by the business owner?

And after all of this and much more I should return to what? More damages to my car? No promises of no overspray and no promises of quality work?

And after he reads all of this and attempts to dispute it I'm suppose to go back? That's just crazy.

Don't go off on me, I just asked a question based on your series of posts. I'm not suggesting you do anything and I don't have a horse in your little race. You decided to post, expect questions. By the way, if you lose it with someone who asks a simple question, you might be part of the problem.

Wouldn't want you to do anything "crazy".

Last edited by Panhandle Bob
BobG posted:

Don't go off on me, I just asked a question based on your series of posts. I'm not suggesting you do anything and I don't have a horse in your little race. You decided to post, expect questions. By the way, if you lose it with someone who asks a simple question, you might be part of the problem.

Wouldn't want you to do anything "crazy".

No Bob, you are clearly in the wrong. This is CHAZLINK's thread to tee off on Vintage Motorcars, and you are standing in the path of a good rant.

After all, the transaxle (CHAZLINK provided) had a leak, and Greg didn't fix it (for free) to his liking. And the gas gauge doesn't work right either.

The paint deal seems like a legitimate issue. However:

Chazlink posted:

And yes in the end Greg Leach offered to repair the paint discoloration only but after his unprofessional outburst and behavior and after I first posted something on here.

CHAZLINK posted this 4 hours after he "first posted something on here" with his first complaint. I'd say that's pretty prompt on the uptake. It shouldn't take a flaming on a website to get something fixed, but then again I'm not guessing CHAZLINK is that easy to deal with.

I think of what I got from a truly bad shop, and this seems kind've... well... resolved.

Reading back over the thread: CHAZLINK seemed to be looking for trouble before he ever hired Vintage Motorcars, and seems to have found what he as looking for.

It's odd, as I've heard nothing but good stuff about Vintage Motorcars. I don't know CHAZLINK, but I do know a couple of guys who have purchased from them before, and would (or will) again. Something is off here, and given the tone of "the airing of grievances", and his response to Bob G (a more reasonable man I've never met)-- it seems to possibly be the expectation of the buyer. 

The customer isn't always right. I've fired a few customers over the years. Sometimes there's no possibility of success, and a great downside risk. I tell people all the time that "I'm not accepting new clients right now".

Chazlink posted:

If you had read the above mentioned issues you will see that when he has attempted to fix things he damaged the car.

He has never admitted it told me that he chipped my car during build and had an area repainted.

And after repairing poorly it had somehow become an ordeal involving me and my car not having a 10K paint job.

The fact is..

He damaged my car, he did not tell me. He fixed it poorly and when I pointed it out it became my problem that only I noticed and he was completely unaware of how it occurred.

Its dishonest business period.

And furthermore when he has handled my car as mentioned above he has damaged it in other ways.

I can even go as far as saying that he said he didn't drive my car when it was there yet my friend and business owner saw MY car driving near there while my car was there.

again, I can go on with more issues I had if you all like and we can make this thread drag on and on.

Just ask and you shall receive.

Drag it on...let's hear the rest!

Bill wants to hear some more so I will dish out some more of my experience.

So going back to the time many months back where I was asked for a 2nd payment of my build..

Chassis is built, body less bonnet and doors is built and I'm asked for the 2nd installment to pay for the mechanical parts for the car. I make the payment on time as I didn't with ALL of them.

After doing so my car gets pushed aside and I'm asked if I would like to be the first person to have the "new bonnet" that will be closest to the original mold taken from a real Spyder.

I said what? He said yes I would take the bonnet I'm making for your car and cut it and glass in sections from another bonnet made from a mold that had the closest shape of the rear back bottom half of a 1955 Spyder.

I said how long would his take? He told me that his guys could get started on it in 30-days from now but he can't do anything further to my car in the meantime and the guys are working on other things that he can't pull them off of.

He said its your choice but just thought I'd give you the opportunity first since you like originality and all.

I said ok as long as your starting it in 30-days then let's do it!

Meanwhile 30-days go by quickly, my car sits out in the rain off to the side while other cars are built...

Then another week goes by, then two weeks, then three weeks, then all of a sudden it's been two months..

I finally said dude, there are other things you could do to my car, why aren't you working on my car or this "new bonnet"?

He replies, "if you want me to do it to someone else's car I can or you can wait" I'm like dude! It's been over two months and you said 30-days max. I said I'd rather you just finished my car please, forget about the "new design bonnet".

As all this time had passed there were 2-other cars built and COMPLETED no joke in crazy record times..

Another week passes and I stop by since sometimes phone calls are not answered after you paid a bunch of money already.

I said Greg, why aren't you working on my car man? What happened to the time frame?

He accidentally slips and tells me that a customer in Europe ordered 2-cars and paid full price and I didn't so what do I expect him to do..

Im like what? I said so if Jesse James walks In and orders a car your going to stop building someone else's car and build his? That's not cool. I could tell he slipped and basically told me in other words that he made up the make believe Bulls@@t story about a "new bonnet" design to throw me on a back burner while he built other cars. And with my money that I already handed him even.

Im sorry but I refer to this as BAD business.

One of the many people I spoke to prior to having a car built here is a very successful businessman who was very disappointed and had to take Greg Leach to court just to get his car from the shop and to motivate Greg to finish it after almost 2-years.

I have a letter from this man that reads "under no circumstances should you even consider having Greg build a car for you unless you wanna drive yourself crazy"

He went on to say that you will end up hating the car and he also asked me not to mention his name because he still had things that Greg said he would fix on the car that he never did.

Another previous buyer who is a business owner and now a friend of mine had paid Greg in full for a car and Greg stopped returning his calls. He eventually had to come down to the shop with some other guys and physically take  possession of his car.

I live in Orange California, for those of you that don't live around here and are considering a build through Vintage Motorcars all I can say is good luck. And I will see you on this thread in the future.

And if you want to get the opinion of people who have local businesses in the industry then just call ANY VW related business here in SoCal and mention his name, ask their opinion.

The only one who will stick up for him is the man he "currently" does business with and he is in AZ (Seduction Motorsports).

I have no quarrels with him and I see he builds nice cars.

 

 

Well Chaz, sorry to read about all your problems with Greg and Vintage.

I know that Danny is in the middle of his spyder build. I have nothing but respect for Mr. Pip. and I will be curious to hear from him on his experience with Greg this time around.                                                                                                                                         I know this - Danny is one dude I wouldn't want to piss off. He's a pit bull.

 

Last edited by Terry Nuckels

I have to admit my first experience with Vintage wasn't all that great. It was a time thing. The car was promised in 6-9 months and took 15 months. But hey, I got it, and it was done VERY well and I really had no complaints. Of course I was a noob back then and really didn't know what I was doing.

Today is a different story. Both Greg and I have grown up a bit. Plus I have 15 years of communication, ordering parts, consulting on stuff, and just general conversation about life with the man. I have to say, Greg was 20 years old when he started this business, and he is a much older, much wiser man than when I first met him. I believe he is 40 now, and was 25 or so when I got my first car.

I ordered a painted, rolling chassis. I got exactly what I ordered and the paint was close to perfect. I think I paid $1600 for the paint. That was a pittance for what I received.

Of course, all the building, testing, and sorting was done by me as the car didn't turn a wheel until I finished the build.

And I'm doing the same thing again. I'm looking forward to the 15 years of improvements he has made, very similar to what Porsche did and still does with the evolution of their cars.

I have complete confidence in his crew and in Greg himself. I should be taking delivery sometime this summer, and I'm not planning on rushing things one bit. I will build it as I can, and it will be done when it's ready. For sure by Carlisle 2017, if not sooner.

As others have stated, sometimes a client and customer just don't fit. Some people aren't happy with Jake Raby, but I couldn't of had a better experience. I know some people were turned away, as Jake knew he couldn't satisfy them. Perhaps Chazz and Greg just don't mesh well, and that is where the problem lies. 

I don't know where the fault lies, but it takes two. Somewhere in the middle of two stories lies the truth. It is just not for me to say. I wasn't there.

The only thing I know is Greg has never been anything but cordial to me in all the years I have done business with him.

 

Signed, Danny, just patiently waiting for another gorgeous ride.

 

 

 

So, based on your postings, you plunked down the deposit on August 10, 2015. You took delivery on or about March 20, 2016. So actual build time was about seven and a half months, including the thirty days you opted to wait for the "original style bonnet" that actually turned into a couple months wait. 

You had a seal problem on a trans you provided for the build. Took a couple of tries but you got it fixed.

You had some paint and chip problems, not repaired to your satisfaction. 

You think you had to wait too long for delivery of the car and were taken out of the build queue by a ruse perpetrated by Greg.

You accept Greg's explanation about the 2 car build headed to Europe, but his telling you that was just a slip of the tongue. He really never meant to speak the truth.

You repeatedly quote various unidentified "successful business owners" who told you not to have Greg build you a car. Using your best judgement and based on your previous experience you decided to move ahead with Greg as your builder. You seem to imply in your initial post that you had a bad experience with another builder, but it is unclear if that is the case.

You will not take your car back to Vintage for any repair or other work.

But, for these issues, you love the car.

Does that sum it up pretty well?

Last edited by Panhandle Bob

Chazlink, think of it as a life lesson-you were advised not to have Vintage build a car for you, but you went ahead and did the deal anyways.

Seems like you're not as good as you thought you were when it comes to 'reading' people.   I also thought I was a good judge of character when I had a repair shop do a bunch of work on my IM.   He lied to me for two and a half years and in the end I had to have the car towed ito IM to have the repairs done properly.

I learned my lesson and I hope you have too.

Last edited by Ron O

Bottom line is yes I have learned my lesson and I should listen to people who held up all red flags prior to the build.

And as far as the paint and chips it's not a matter of "my satisfaction".

Its more along the lines of poor quality repair of damage done and carelessness of a customers car along with a long degree of untruthfulness.

Its not always easy providing 100% satisfaction to customers. 

We offered to correct the paint issue while trying to setting the correct expectation.  Overspray has never been an issue with our work, we mask and cover the cars when doing a blend/paint correction.  The issue was setting the correct expectation with the customer.  The customer wanted us to assure him that there would be no sign of a blend.  Well, the majority of the time no one would ever notice, not even experts, but there is no way a 100% guaranty could be offered that there would be no signs of a blend, it would just be hidden where it would not be noticed.  There is no such thing as a perfect paint job, I don't care if its a factory major automotive manufacturer or top custom paint shop, if you look over with a microscope you will find "flaws".  To what degree is the question. 

The paint correction we did was not to the satisfaction of the customer (which is reasonable on his part), but not the expectation of a perfect result (because there is no such thing as perfect paint job).  If the customer worked for Ferrari as  there paint quality control with his overly discerning eye, none of there cars would leave the factory. 

And as far as us telling our customers all the details of builds, adjustments, corrections (paint or other), are just not practical.  When any person buys a new car, do you think the dealer tells them the car was chipped during transport?  No, as long as it was corrected it's not a big deal. 

There was personality conflicts, but in the end we offered to take care of the issues.  If the customer did not feel comfortable us doing it, that is his choice and his right. 

The bottom line is the car turned out really nice.  It drives and and handles really well, there were some MINOR issues, but over all the car turned out really well and should be a joy to drive.  Its a great build and a car that would not be any shame to say we built it. 

Hope the customer drives and enjoys the car and his trauma of the details is put past in his memory.

And here are a couple photos of the spot that the builder damaged and tried to repair without my knowledge and became something only I could really see because I am so difficult and all.

Yes it's true, I notice things like this..

Its a brand new car that I spent a ton of money on and I understand very well that no paint job is perfect but this just shouldn't have happened.

If you ask anyone who does paintwork the will tell you the same thing that you don't try to blend such a small area.

And as you may have read in my post this paint issue was just part of a list of things which mostly stemmed from dishonesty.

 

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