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Hello to all,

I'm going back in time....yes, selling my 911 for a 1957 356 Speedster (Outlaw replica). The question that I have is,  some of the Speedsters have very little badging on them (Porsche, Speedster, Porsche Logo, etc.)  while some are covered with them. Is there a happy medium? Are there possible "legal implications" regarding using Porsche representative type Badging? Your opinions are definitely welcomed! Presently mine is sparsely badged.  Please advise.

Thanks....Larry

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I only know of two shops, one in the USA, one in Europe, who have Porsche's blessing for some Porsche/original coach builder badging on the cars they build, but those cars are only a handful each year, built to Porsche drawings using old techniques and are essentially the same as the originals, but sold as reproduction$$$$$$.  That is the reason replica builders don't (usually) put Porsche badging on the cars that they build.

Individual owners have not been bothered by the legal beagles (so far) but there has been a recent movement, on here, at least, away from Porsche badging to the badging of the replica builder (Intermeccanica, Beck, Vintage, even CMC) to make the cars more "honest".

I built my outlaw back in the 1990's way before I found this site.  If I built it today it would have CMC badging on it.

Thanks for both of your replies the information is quite helpful to determine which way to go. Lane I see your from SC, do you know of any Speedster group that is meeting in the SC/NC area....it would be great to get together.

Thanks....Larry

I don't know of any formal groups, Larry, but I'm always happy to meet with any other crazies like myself.  Also, a number of us east coast guys have been meeting in the NC mountains in the fall for some great drives and camaraderie.  I'll post here if/when we put something together for this year.  I'm down in a suburb of Charleston.  where are you?

Last edited by Lane Anderson

@Larry Scislowicz - I certainly will.  I should have my new car between now and Carlisle (mid-May).  Are you going to Carlisle?  Highly recommend it.  See https://www.speedsterowners.co...carlisle-2021?page=1 for details.

See https://www.speedsterowners.co...s-beck-super-coupe-3 for details on the car I'm getting.

Oh...  @MikelB (Mike Warjas) lives in your neck of the woods.  Y'all ought to meet up.

Last edited by Lane Anderson

The badges go on much more easily than they come off, so if my car had come without them I would never have added them, except I might have considered breaking the "914" off a "914 VW Porsche" tail badge and showing "VW Porsche". Even then I would have used adhesive rather than drilling for the pins.

Speaking of adhesive, if I wanted to use stick-on plastic rather than snap-on aluminum for the beltline spears on my speedster, where would I shop for the plastic version? It takes real care to avoid snagging the aluminum ones on the car cover.

Thnx

Bill

@Larry Scislowicz - I certainly will.  I should have my new car between now and Carlisle (mid-May).  Are you going to Carlisle?  Highly recommend it.  See https://www.speedsterowners.co...carlisle-2021?page=1 for details.

See https://www.speedsterowners.co...s-beck-super-coupe-3 for details on the car I'm getting.

Oh...  @MikelB (Mike Warjas) lives in your neck of the woods.  Y'all ought to meet up.

Yes, I am planning on going...should be great fun. Your Coupe will be unbelievable!! will you have it at the show? I'll try to get in touch with Mike also....Thanks

The badges go on much more easily than they come off, so if my car had come without them I would never have added them, except I might have considered breaking the "914" off a "914 VW Porsche" tail badge and showing "VW Porsche". Even then I would have used adhesive rather than drilling for the pins.

Speaking of adhesive, if I wanted to use stick-on plastic rather than snap-on aluminum for the beltline spears on my speedster, where would I shop for the plastic version? It takes real care to avoid snagging the aluminum ones on the car cover.

Thnx

Bill

Hi Bill ...Thanks for your response....in regards to the "beltline spears" my Speedster doesn't have them...have no reference for you on that......sorry

FACT: Our replicas are not made by Porsche. Why pretend they are? They are mostly "hot rod" Volkswagens. My 2019 VMC Speedster came with a "1600 Super" emblem. I replaced the faux Porsche hubcap emblems with VW Wolfsburg emblems from EMPI. The seatbelt buckles have the same. My leather key fobs are imprinted with a "VW". My only badge is an older SOC model. I had emblems made to reflect the fact that the engine is a 2.3 (2332cc), and a license plate frame that reads "My Other Car Is A 1965 Porsche 365SC Coupe". Even though my Speedster is definitely not a Porsche, it's fun factor is about the same, and in some areas, even better than my "real" 356.

I've gone on and on about why my car isn't badged as a Porsche, and why I think that just letting them stand as what they are is the right way to go. I'm getting kinda' tired of myself and my overly strong opinion, so I'm not gonna' do that.

If a guy likes the badges, that's great. If there's something in him that cringes when he's got "P" car badges on his plastic fantastic, I can certainly identify. Terry Nuckles had Volkswagen badges on his speedster which was kinda' cool (and super cheeky), but wasn't quite right either.

These things aren't really anything at all, brand wise - neither fish nor fowl, they exist in some kind of netherworld in the automotive universe. Even saying "this is a Kirk Duncan VS" or "that's an Intermeccanica" doesn't mean as much as we think it does. Both were sometimes sold as incomplete cars, finished by everybody from Chip Foose to some dude in Buttscratch, TX to varying degrees of safety and completeness. Once could identify by the type of engine in the back, but even that's kind of a weird way to go about "identifying".

We all love these cars, but aren't really sure how to explain them. I've had one or another of them for 21 years, and I'm still trying to come up with something that is quick and easy and makes sense to the guy just trying to make conversation at the gas pump.

In the big scheme of things, people who care too much one way or another about "the badge" typically have more going on with it. It's more than a badge to them. If that's the case, then do what you really want to do.

We're all OK with it either way.

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Stan Galat posted:

I've gone on and on about why my car isn't badged as a Porsche, and why I think that just letting them stand as what they are is the right way to go. I'm getting kinda' tired of myself and my overly strong opinion, so I'm not gonna' do that.

If a guy likes the badges, that's great. If there's something in him that cringes when he's got "P" car badges on his plastic fantastic, I can certainly identify. Terry Nuckles had Volkswagen badges on his speedster which was kinda' cool (and super cheeky), but wasn't quite right either.

These things aren't really anything at all, brand wise - neither fish nor fowl, they exist in some kind of netherworld in the automotive universe. Even saying "this is a Kirk Duncan VS" or "that's an Intermeccanica" doesn't mean as much as we think it does. Both were sometimes sold as incomplete cars, finished by everybody from Chip Foose to some dude in Buttscratch, TX to varying degrees of safety and completeness. Once could identify by the type of engine in the back, but even that's kind of a weird way to go about "identifying".

We all love these cars, but aren't really sure how to explain them. I've had one or another of them for 21 years, and I'm still trying to come up with something that is quick and easy and makes sense to the guy just trying to make conversation at the gas pump.

In the big scheme of things, people who care too much one way or another about "the badge" typically have more going on with it. It's more than a badge to them. If that's the case, then do what you really want to do.

We're all OK with it either way.

Well said Stan...my viewpoint is that it is a "REPLICA" and if anyone asks that's what I tell them, along with "I can't afford a REAL ONE - if you can find one".  I think the big-rub here is "misrepresentation" when you actually try to sell one. If you are an owner of one of these cars "knock your socks off" on outfitting them with what badges you see fit!.....again thanks for your thoughts, truly appreciate it!.....

@jprpdr posted:

FACT: Our replicas are not made by Porsche. Why pretend they are? They are mostly "hot rod" Volkswagens. My 2019 VMC Speedster came with a "1600 Super" emblem. I replaced the faux Porsche hubcap emblems with VW Wolfsburg emblems from EMPI. The seatbelt buckles have the same. My leather key fobs are imprinted with a "VW". My only badge is an older SOC model. I had emblems made to reflect the fact that the engine is a 2.3 (2332cc), and a license plate frame that reads "My Other Car Is A 1965 Porsche 365SC Coupe". Even though my Speedster is definitely not a Porsche, it's fun factor is about the same, and in some areas, even better than my "real" 356.

Greg @Vintage showed me his custom badge for the front and it looks kinda Porsche like but really says Vintage and California when you look close.  Personally I like that idea just fine and am going for that over a "real" badge.  

To each their own of course though !

i am in agreement with all of these comments.....i have nothing to hide...i tell all that ask my car is a replica....the real PORSCHE guys already know straight away...there are a couple obvious tell tale signs...but i digress....last year before the "19"....PORSCHE day at SUPERCAR SUNDAY....there were 200+ cars of various models ie: real deal 356 coupes & speedsters... 911  993  996 997 even two 959's...  targa's.... cabriolets....GT2 & GT3  etc etc....people would walk up and down the rows...then come over and look at my car and snap away with their phones.....and ask what a 2500 SUPER is....(it's a sneak reference to 2.5 liter SUBARU)......my point is...if i don't tell, you one is the wiser if it's REAL or REPLICA....all that matters is the FUN FACTOR & the smiles per miles 20210203_132314

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@El Frazoo you are correct sir...in all regards....i was being facetious when i said standard equipment...with mr.john boy...nothing was free...in many different ways...as i recall all my badging was $500 or thereIMG_20200211_105447_111 about....anything saying PORSCHE or with the crest is kinda like H/D (harley davidson)...which stands for "HUNDREDS of DOLLARS"...hair dryer also works....my little key fob was $34.00 & my wooden shift knob was $80.00.....but in my mind...mandatory kit

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With a Speedster, this is one of those awkward things that you step into without realizing at first.

But it sticks to your shoe, smells funny, and after a while you know you're going to have to deal with somehow.

Your first take is, "It's just a car." A cool ride that's way more practical (and possible) than having the real thing, and it will be a hoot to drive, right? How else can I get a 'new' car with all the OG goodness and none of the computerized crap and that's still legal to drive? Great, sign me up.

But then, getting gas that first time, the guy runs up and tells you what a great restoration job you've done and how his brother-in-law used to have one, and, uh, oh crap, now what do I say?

After a while, we work out our stories. Nah, just a replica. Yeah, VW motor. Drives better. Disk brakes. No rust, ha ha.

But it doesn't end there. The mind insists on playing its games with us. What am I really doing here? If the car's a fake, am I, somehow, a fake too? Am I a complete idiot? A 12-year-old who never had a Schwinn like all the other kids? Just what failings am I compensating for? Why can't I just get a Miata or a 'Vette like all the other paunchy, balding 12-year olds? I'd have a lot less explaining to do with the guy at the gas pump and with myself.

In time, I think we get all of this sorted out, each in our own way. We convince ourselves that we're OK and that there's nothing too abnormal about this. Most people will never quite get it, but we come to be OK with that, too.

Still, it's comforting to have someplace like this to check into when needed where you don't have any explaining to do.

.

Last edited by Sacto Mitch
@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

With a Speedster, this is one of those awkward things that you step into without realizing at first.

But it sticks to your shoe, smells funny, and after a while you know you're going to have to deal with somehow.

Your first take is, "It's just a car." A cool ride that's way more practical (and possible) than having the real thing, and it will be a hoot to drive, right? How else can I get a 'new' car with all the OG goodness and none of the computerized crap and that's still legal to drive? Great, sign me up.

But then, getting gas that first time, the guy runs up and tells you what a great restoration job you've done and how his brother-in-law used to have one, and, uh, oh crap, now what do I say?

After a while, we work out our stories. Nah, just a replica. Yeah, VW motor. Drives better. Disk brakes. No rust, ha ha.

But it doesn't end there. The mind insists on playing its games with us. What am I really doing here? If the car's a fake, am I, somehow, a fake too? Am I a complete idiot? A 12-year-old who never had a Schwinn like all the other kids? Just what failings am I compensating for? Why can't I just get a Miata or a 'Vette like all the other paunchy, balding 12-year olds? I'd have a lot less explaining to do with the guy at the gas pump and with myself.

After a while, I think we get all of this sorted out, each in our own way. We convince ourselves that we're OK and that there's nothing too abnormal about this. Most people will never quite get it, but we come to be OK with that, too.

Still, it's comforting to have someplace like this to check into when needed where you don't have any explaining to do.

.

Great Analysis....the next Dr. Phil of the Speedster World!....great reading!....Thanks

In Chicago mostly, I get what year is that.  About 1 out 50 people ask, is it all original?  If I do meet someone that is clearly educated about our cars I tell them its a "recreation".  Either way it's a hand built custom car that most people awe at.  Two summers ago I was parked in the "Viagra triangle" with a Rolls Royce in front of me and a Lambo behind me...a family came up as I was putting the cockpit cover on.  Their grandfather was visiting from Germany and he went on and on in German about the car.  His grandson said he was saying how he remembered the car as a child on the street.  He was lit up about it.  I didn't have the heart to tell him it wasn't an original.  Otherwise, people pose in front of it way more than the other sports cars parked on either side of me.  

"But it doesn't end there. The mind insists on playing its games with us. What am I really doing here? If the car's a fake, am I, somehow, a fake too? Am I a complete idiot?"

Well said!   And, I have had those very thoughts and sentiment.

Ok, I guess we should read the 12 rules by Jordan Peterson, he states that he continually is trying not to lie and it's his biggest problem   He is quite the communicator himself.  His point IMO is that it is sometimes, maybe most times difficult to really tell the truth. Truth is truth according to our perpective and we all like to have a clear conscience but at times it takes so much work for those with less silver in their tongue to clearly explain and then our audience might not get it anyway so it is a difficult thing.  

Let go back to driving..



Tomorrow I will take out my roadster for it's maiden 2021 drive or maybe not

Maybe I will wait till Sunday Morning, it will make it more Triumph  Happy Easter

Last edited by IaM-Ray

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The last thing Stanistan needs is a vice-president. There is no voting in the Senate there, as there is no Senate. With no voting in the Senate, there are no tie votes, so there's no need for someone to cast a tie-breaking vote. And aside from casting a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, what useful purpose does a vice-president serve?

Besides, my birth certificate says I was born in Philadelphia, so I'm ineligible to hold public office in Stanistan.

.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

.The last thing Stanistan needs is a vice-president. There is no voting in the Senate there, as there is no Senate. With no voting in the Senate, there are no tie votes, so there's no need for someone to cast a tie-breaking vote. And aside from casting a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, what useful purpose does a vice-president serve?

Besides, my birth certificate says I was born in Philadelphia, so I'm ineligible to hold public office in Stanistan.

My Bolshevik comrade Mitch is always welcome for a state visit to the glorious People's Republic, but only as a foreign emissary. As he is not a citizen, but merely a "friend of the state" I'm afraid he would be unable to hold elected office, assuming we had such a thing

... which we do not. For I am President for Life (Beloved by His People, Who Have No Need of Elections). Even the diplomatic license plate frame on the Presidential Limousine proclaims it.

For the Glory of the Republic

Mitch is correct in his assertation that we have no senate, politburo, courts, or constitution - because we have no need of them, insomuch as "his word is law" as the glorious flag of our republic proclaims:

Flag

In this, we are not unlike many of the Lord Governors of your United States, who also of late unilaterally decreed the suspension of their constitutions and became their respective state's de facto "Dear Leader" (with no need for legislatures, courts, or the rule of law).  I must say that I was impressed by their zeal for their people, and with their control over their press. It brought a tear to my eye.

Regarding badging on vehicles operating within the People's Republic - the '63 panel bus has all of the standard VW badges, with some additional deluxe trim bling. Likewise, the actual FCA work van and Pacifica proudly proclaim for all the world that we are a humble people, with no need for fancy imported frippery and whatnot. The Speedster flies an Intermeccanica badge on the dash, and a Super/Duper badge on the deck-lid (because the Type 1 is, well, "Super Duper").

Super-Duper

It is only the glorious Presidential Limousine that truly lets its colors be unfurled (or as the first lady calls it, "lets the freak flags fly").

Limo Driver

^ That's me pictured above (staring heroically into the middle distance). You can tell by my chauffer's hat and by my tuxedo tee-shirt that I'm a man of the people. You can tell by my moobs and skin-tight double-extra jumbo tee-shirt that I didn't miss many meals during the lockdown.

So you see, the badges and gimcrackery are apropos for certain cars. If yours is one of them, then by all means, you should display them. If you feel that restraint is in order, so as not to arouse discontent in the proletariat, that is understood as well.

You do you. I'll be out here in my little corner of flyover country doing me to the very best of my ability.

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Last edited by Stan Galat

@Stan Galat, we have an open meeting invitation for drinks and a discussion on the origin of the lore of Stanistan.

Regarding the badges.... I don't know about you Speedster guys but I bought the Spyder because I thought it was a beautiful car. I knew it was a replica but no one really prepares you for all the questions (sometimes ridiculous, sometimes annoying) you get. There truly is a "long and short" answer when asked. Like or unlike some, I really don't enjoy talking to everyone interested in the car. I also don't generally want to spend the 20 minutes explaining it. So, in those situations the short, untruthful answer is 5 seconds and I can go about my day. I find myself taking the time to talk the longest when someone knows what it is (a fake). I don't want to be misleading, I just can't be bothered to take the time.

Having said that, I find it odd that those who buy the fiberglass replica '54 Ford" restomods loudly proclaim it as a '54 Ford (sans replica) even though there is nothing '54 about most of them. There may be a Ford engine but it's a modern crate.

I am sometimes envious of the "Shelby Cobra" guys because at this point, almost everyone knows it's a replica so they are not constantly forced into a 20 minute explanation with literally everyone in the parking lot, a red traffic light, out the window in the lane next to them, going the opposite way and stopping in moving traffic (actually happened), the ER entrance in an emergency or trying to eat a taco.

The badges are there because I thought that's what you do but I feel if they weren't, I'd never get anything done.

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