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When most people think about torque they think about displacement. The 2001 boxster s had a 3.2 L flat 6. The 2000 bmw m roadster had a 3.2 L straight 6. The Porsche was 250hp and 225 ft lbs. BMW was 240hp and 240 ft lbs. ln the bimmer if you were going 10 mph in 5th and floored the accelerator the car would slowly gain speed. If you were in 5th at 10 mph in the Porsche and jammed the accelerator the car would stall. The bimmer is just better for commuting and everyday driving. I owned both cars. The bimmer was such a better day to day car. With the Porsche I was shifting constantly to keep the engine at power. But track or twisty roads I’ll take the Porsche in a heartbeat.

@LI-Rick posted:

I don’t get the BMW thing either. My wife’s car is a 2017 Lincoln MKZ, twin turbo, 400hp, 400 lbs-ft of torque, AWD.  Fast, comfortable, big trunk for when we travel.  I wish Lincoln was still building cars, as I would buy another.
If I was in the market for an off the shelf fun car, it would be a Mustang GT Mach 1.

I'm perfectly fine with a BMW, but I'm realistic about what they are.

One of the best cars I ever owned was a E39 540i V8 with a 6 sp manual. That car had 324 ft lb of torque. But, for reference, a C8 'vette has 465 ft lbs of normally aspirated torque. A CT5V Blackwing has 659 ft lbs of supercharged torque. A 2023 Mercedes-AMG S 63 E Performance is a hybrid V8 twin-turbo/ electric that makes 1055 ft lbs of torque.

That's "torquey".

But calling a normally aspirated BMW I6 (1987 535i: 228 ft lbs, 2000 M-Roadster: 236 ft lb) "torquey" is something that seems humorous to me in comparison to... well,  anything at all right now. Those cars are only torquey when compared to a 190 ft lb 2.7 L Porsche 6 from 2000. For reference, my wife's 2019 Chrysler minivan makes more torque (262 ft lbs). It's normally aspirated.

A new BMW M2 makes 400 ft lbs of torque, which coincidentally is exactly the same amount my 2.7L V6 Ecoboost pickup truck and Rick's MKZ make, which means that the $63K (base) "racy" small BMW has an engine with almost identical power characteristics as a white work-truck and a vehicle beloved by livery drivers. This is the world we inhabit now. There may be a glorious planet-saving miracle-machine in everybody's dystopian nightmare, but things are still pretty good on the ICE landscape.

This is what boosting an engine (twin turbo, in the case of the BMW, the MKZ, and my pickup truck) gets you.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I'm sure the Lincoln is a wonderful vehicle for swift, comfortable travel, but it's too large, heavy, and softly sprung to be  back road warrior.  I like small, nimble, and grippy and have had great fun with the measly 230hp of my current BMW.  It has also been remarkably trouble free (much like my first BMW) with the exception of the VANOS issue that hit me at 100k miles.  Given that my Acura TXS with its much-vaunted Honda reliability had a similarly expensive issue at 70k, all-in-all the BMW reliability is not an issue for me.

@550 Phil, I hear what you say about M240i versus M2.  The only thing really pulling me to the more expensive M2 is that it's available with a manual transmission while the M240i is not.  I have to decide whether that matters much to me right now.  I've driven paddle-shifted cars and been a passenger in them on the track, and they're pretty fun as well.

Oh, one more thing...

"Trailer for sale or rent (just kidding about the renting)...

Rooms to let, 50 cents..."

My trailer (formerly Danny's) is up for sale.  It will include ratchet straps and a trailer dolly for moving it around.  It is a 700 lb, easy towing, single axle trailer mechanically rebuilt by Danny.  Recent tires, axle, electric brakes, and lights done by the master himself.  My wife's Outback had no trouble pulling it, loaded with my Coupe, back from last year's Tour de Smo'.  PM me if you're interested.

Last edited by Lane Anderson
@Stan Galat posted:

Sorry about that, Rick. I’m not really up on Lincolns, and lose track of what’s what with the MK* naming scheme.

Is your wife’s car built on the same platform as the Fusion? Does it have the same 2.7L Nano Ecoboost as my truck?

Yes, same platform as Fusion, with active suspension. The engine is in the same family as the 2.7l, except aluminum block instead of cast iron, and it is bored and stroked.  We are going to be replacing this vehicle soon, likely with an Aviator with the same drivetrain.

No topless stuff.

Why won't anyone on here listen!

OK Lane, I've held back because, well, I'm a deliberative type. But by now it's obvious to anyone with eyes and ears and half a brain what car you must—not should; MUST—obtain next. It checks all the boxes: it's fast, luxurious, relatively light and has gobs of style. It's a track day terror but seats four easily. You will not see another coming at you in Charleston or anywhere else.

And best of all, it's British. A return to your car-loving roots.

This is it:

Now, I know what a lot of you guys are going to say. You're going to say "But Ed, a 3 1/2-Litre Bentley is too old. It's too square. Too upright. It's too bulkey to deliver the kind of sprightly performance The Lanemator desires."

But that's where you're all wrong. All of you!

Because the '33 Bentley Laner's getting is the Ex-Crowley, de-cinderized version. That is: it is demon-powered. It goes 90mph through walls of flame.

And keeps going.

I think that's enough "torque" to manage any Earthly situation, and purely in keeping with Lane's Overall Vibe.

You're welcome. All of you.

Last edited by edsnova

Helluva lot classier than any BMW thing.....

... and the knives come out. For the record, the car in Al's post looks like a Mitsuoka Le-Seyde, a car that doesn't exactly light me up.


Are we allowed to talk freely about cars Lane is actively thinking of buying? To comment on the beautiful, purposeful designs coming out of the Black Forest of late?


The 4-class looks like the love-child of Tow Mater and a Kenworth that hit a brick wall.


Images (2)
  • bucky
  • Mitsuoka_Le-Seyde
Last edited by Stan Galat

Watched the car get loaded on a trailer to PA just a few minutes ago.  Keeping it company were:

  • Jaguar E-type S1 OTS
  • Alfa Romeo that I didn't recognize, but that appeared to be a coach-built 50s-era fastback with Italian "PROVA" plates
  • BMW 508 Cabriolet
  • Ferrari Daytona Spyder
  • Gurney Eagle Indy car that did not quite meet its $3M reserve at the Amelia auction

The driver said he was on his way to pick up a Superformance GT40 next.  Of course they were all out-classed by the Beck.

Last edited by Lane Anderson

@Stan remembers:  "...absolutely bat-guano gaga over the mid-engine idea..".

Just for the record, I was not amongst these folks from the start.  I owned two 356 coupes for several years,  and they worked just fine and all that room in the jump seats was very handy.  And oversteer can be really fun.  I fully understand about smaller polar moment of inertia and all the totally cool suspension parts, etc. etc. that is  the superb engineering in the Beck Blue Coupe, BUT. . .  the engine should be in the back.

That is all, over and out.

I have sat in three mid engine Speedsters/Coupes, and I did not like any of them.  Heat, noise, cramped.  One of the absolute marvelous things about my rear-engine steel coupes, and the Speedster too for that matter, is how much room there seems to be in there, despite the fact that it's such a small car.  I'd love to see a rear-engine (Subie or air cooled) Beck Super Coupe. Although how that would happen I have no idea.  Has he built any so far?

Well the BMW M2 and Audi RS3 are both essentially unobtainium until next year.  I haven't spoken to a Porsche or Corvette dealers yet, but I think it will likely be in the same boat.  The M240i, however, is more obtainable and I am leaning heavily that way.  My 128i has been such a good car that going with its successor is almost a no-brainer.  I am still looking at others (Supra, Z), so the decision isn't yet made.

As to the 911 Super Coupe, that would be the ticket.  Do you know if it will have the same purpose-built suspension you got, or adapted 911-ish stuff?  I have always thought that Henry's 911 Speedsters were the ultimate.  A 911-based 356 replica  Coupe would be right there with it.  @Lane Anderson: Joel Roth -- do you know if he has a presence here, and a build thread?

PS:  We should start up a lottery pool: What's the Laner going to buy?  And the tie breaker: When?

@El Frazoo posted:

One of the absolute marvelous things about my rear-engine steel coupes, and the Speedster too for that matter, is how much room there seems to be in there, despite the fact that it's such a small car.

Germans seem to specialize in “Tardis” cars. The only German interior I’ve ever been in that I couldn’t describe as spacious was a VW Scirroco. My Alfa interior was huge, too,but next to a 911, the Alfetta GT isn’t that small of a car. Original Minis were very spacious as well.  

All that safety stuff robs modern cars of their interior room. One of the most cramped cars I’ve ever sat in was a ~2000 Camaro. Modern Mustangs aren’t much better.

Last edited by dlearl476
@dlearl476 posted:

Good luck, Lane. I’m about a year behind you. The 968 is going away this spring and the Spyder probably will next winter/spring.

I found a nice last year R170 SLK with 60,000 miles that I think will replace both. Been thinking about a Speedster, but that’s as “challenging” as the 968.

An old car is just that… an old car and you need more than one when they get old .

Um, even I will admit that the blue(ish) wheels don't always work.  Besides this is well out of budget already.

I discovered this weekend that the M2 and Z4 are basically unobtainium until next year, but I could have an M240i a month or so before Tour de Smo'.  I will make some inquiries into a Cayman or Corvette, but I expect them to be either out of budget or unavailable.  A Supra (same drivetrain as the M240i) is a possibility, but since they're build at the same plant in Austria as the Z4, I imagine they're also unavailable.  Pity, as they can now be had with a manual.

Others under consideration are the Audi RS3 (probably unavailable) and the Nissan Z (not doing that well in the reviews although the specs look good - no idea about availability).  I will make some phone calls and hopefully have a decision in a week or so.  I will probably be selling the 128i and have whatever I get as my only car (not counting Pam's Outback), so daily/long-term usability is a factor.

Last edited by Lane Anderson
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