Thunder Ranch build thread

There's these pictures for comparison-

https://www.speedsterowners.com...50-spyder-roller-20k

Yes, my car is a twin of that, except for the hood hole, I think.

Ed

Here's how Henry solved the 'hole in the wrong place' problem.  Not simple.

Bob that's truly a work of art .

Pure work of art that someone else can appreciate but not me..... Reason not much trunk and never mind how you have to climb on the hood to fill the tank .... Just saying. 

Is it just sitting more upright on the other one?  I'd move hole or weld up a curved neck.

Hard to tell, the photos are vertical instead of horizontal.

Gonna glass over the hole and cut anew. Thanks all.

Now the next item of business: the gas pedal. I need one.

I have a clutch and a brake pedal, each with its own MC/reservoir thing. No go pedal.

The floor has a little steel L bracket with a big hole. I am told this is the standard rig. I have not yet seen just the Spyder-style gas pedal for sale. Can someone direct me to that?

Alan Merklin posted:

Bob that's truly a work of art .

Beautiful, but apparently a real PITA to do.  Henry said he'd never do another one like that. 

Somewhat tongue in cheek but - $16 at Summit Racing.  Billet Aluminum.

Add a sponge cushion from Will and your off to barefoot driving.

Ed, assuming that the old and new holes don't overlap, could you cut the new one first and use it as a plug for the old one?  Differences in contour would probably necessitate resurfacing (maybe not), but it seems me doing so would add strength and make the whole job easier.  Just a thought.

I can see that Ed will be poking all through every Spyder he sees at Carlisle this year....

I know what's going on here. The owner of the kit wanted the hole to be where it sits on a real 550, and had it cut there. I did the same with my BECK 550. Carey moved the neck upward to line up with this hole. 

Maybe Carey could modify your tank for a reasonable charge, Ed.

Mystery revealed.  I welded my original VW tank up years ago for my speedy - yeah, I was afraid of kaboom from gas fumes.  A local muffler shop can easily do the work too - many may refuse though. Starting with a new gas might be safest.

Thanks Arajani. I was thinking the same.

It's a new gas tank. Well...10 years old but never once had any gas in it. I suppose I could have my muffler guy look at it. His guys like to weld stuff and they're pretty good at it. 

No biggie to re-glass though. I've been playing with fiberglass all winter and I have a bunch laying around.

So about that gas pedal. Seriously. No one knows what part that is? I see Fibersteel sells a very nice 3-pedal rig for like a gazillion bucks but I really only need a go pedal, as the other two look the part. A picture of someone's setup would even help. 

Ed-

If you need a gas pedal, talk to Carey -- I think he might have an extra like the one I had (see photo below). Is this the one you're looking for?

I may have a spare but, if I do, it's probably pretty ratty - I got a few pedal clusters from TC a while back to make one good one but I think I saved one of the gas pedals.  Usually the pedal hinge gets eaten away a bit, as well as the casting that it sits on.

I'll take a look later and report back.

Arjani: yeah. That's it exactly. And thanks, Gordon. I've got Bridget's old go pedal somewhere and that's the other option—making something out of junk. I actually like doing that, even though I'm not all that good at it (yet).

Ed, since I don't know jack about FG, and only understand steel a little bit, I think I'd see about a gas tank that works with the hole you have in the hood.  Authentic, and all like that. Plus might leave some room up there for something besides the tank and a bunch of frame parts.

Gas pedal? Is this just the VW arrangement sans the other two pedals?  Probably not, but if so, then these OEM sort of things are pretty cheap.  Cut off the part you dont need and rave on.  Likely not that simple.  Sorry, don't listen to me, as I don't really have a clue here. Trying to remember my old 356 lash-up.  Believe it may have been rod and socket all the way, no cable.  Now, that would be authentic, if you could manage it.  What you can trust me on here is the following:  That rod and socket contraption was a real PITA.

And we're underway. 

Cut some steel yesterday for the gas tank mods, and also cut some fiberglass to get at the frame rails, for the frame rail mods. And also cut some more fiberglass for the oild cooler ducting. 

And started a new blog to document the build.

Please to enjoy responsibly.

Welding, cutting, welding: making the front jack points functional, chapter 1. 

(P.S. I also got the correct-ish horns squared away)

Fabrication is fun...

Lil filler and primer, next, then weld 'em in. This is fun, right?

Very cool with the functional Jack points!

If I could do it again, I'd move the filler where yours is. You can probably get the full 8 or 10 gallons in there, plus it looks better.

Ed, I have a gas pedal. It's a Neal that is cut at an angle, painted black so you can't see the red kit-car looking Neal, and covered with an aluminum, nice looking pedal cover.

I'd use a Morse cable with the pedal, so if you plan the original linkage, nevermind.

Also, I thought the original frame had the Jack points tied together with a narrow tube, say 1/2” or so.

I'll check on that, Danny. PM-ing you on you gas pedal now.

Frame extensions are done (except for paint). Jack points work.

Made some more progress today on the build. Fixed a stress crack in the hood, ground and painted my frame extensions and did some other stuff.

While under the car I took a measurement from the front firewall to the beam. 6 1/4 inches, roughly.

The VW master cylinder is a bit more than 7 inches. 

I have an idea of how to make one fit, but I wonder if anyone has the solution to this already set so they can share it with me.

And away we go!!  The Village Smithy is smokin' -- literally.

Can't see your Wordpress links, Ed.

^ x2  

Deleted former post.

Still at it: looking at gauges, smoothing inner panels, fixing cracks and getting ready to pull the transaxle for new gears.

This link should work.

Way better, Ed. Impressive.

Gee Ed, are you some kind of journalist or sumthin?  You have a great knack for descriptive narration, and pretty good w camera too.  Like to tell stories??  I think we're going to learn a lot here . . . .

Cool Beans ED

Very cool, Ed! Will be following your project and learn a thing or two along the way. 

Trans unbolted...except those pesky bearings.

Those have to be persuaded, don't they?

Pretty much. Remove the axle tube boot bolts on trans end. Use the nut on the end of the axle to pound on while pulling axle tube straight outward. Use a dead-blow.

The outer bearings are about $15-30 each, I replaced mine. Should come off with a really good smack or three. I think I slid a socket over the end of the axle and let that strike the nut.

Get a long and large pair of needle nose and grind into the ends so you can get the heavy snap-rings in the diff out to get the spade ends of the axle out. I can talk you through it if need be.

BTW, your jack points look great!

Thanks, Danny. I checked-in with Sartwell and he told me to just bring the whole mess and he'll install all the o-rings and gaskets on the end correctly for me after doing the new ring dear and .93 4th. I have a whole box of new parts as well: bearings, bearing covers, all the bolts, all the gaskets. So I'll just drop it all off at his shop soon enough. Fingers crossed.

Now back to the horn pockets.

Sartwell hates Spyders, or used to. Weird. Anyway, make sure the ring gear ends up on the driver's side, not to insult anyone, but I believe his mainstay is Bug drag transmissions.

Shims, you'll need pinion and diff bearing shims to set the new ring gear. I wish I had the tools to do that!

I had not heard of his Spyder hate.

He seems to be fine with the flipped R&Ps. When I had him do Bridget's box he was looking for an earlier case for a guy with a trike. I traded mine for a later, single side cover unit. At the time he was also finishing up a 6-cylinder Beck Spyder.

The last trans he made for me is good, and so is the one he made for Cory. The one I'm giving him to work on is already built and just needs the R&P and 4th gear changed out, so I expect he can handle it. 

Trans is dropped-off at Jimmy's new shop. Lotta cools stuff there, but we were both on the move and so I didn't take pics.

914 gauges shipped to N. Hollywood Speedo for estimate. I forgot to put the note in the box telling them what I wanted, but they called as soon as they got them & we straightened it out. Those gauge jobs are like a 6 month lead time, so I'll probably set the car up with the re-pops for early sorting. The binnacle gets like a silver hammer tone finish so it shouldn't be a big deal to cut the holes later and install a plate with the new gauges in them.

Currently smoothing the inside of the rear clamshell: three skims with Fibral and a final 2 or 3 with regular filler. This is all going to be painted body color so i want it smoove, mostly, as on the originals.

That line near the bottom is a guideline for the inner brace—that Swiss-cheese-looking bit of bent aluminum that all the original 550s had and almost none of the replicas do.

What is most interesting to me is that the top lip of that piece is not bonded or welded to the clam itself. There's always a gap. I've already mocked it up in cardboard but I'm not quite sure yet how to make the aluminum version stay. Looks like maybe an L bracket, bonded in at the bottom of the V, held to the brace with a couple rivets...

Holeeeeeee sh*t.

Wow. He's doing okay, Ed? Call me, man.

Niiiice.  If the aluminum piece is non-structural maybe you could use trim tape.  I'm not sure it would withstand the heat, though.

Gonna try it with aluminum sheet, Lane. If that doesn't work I'll make it out of fiberglass. If that doesn't work then maybe I'll admit defeat. 

Well, here's one replica that has that support piece - or at least an interpretation of it:

Have you heard of 502 Motorworks ? These are high-end cars, made in aluminum, and supposedly homologated to race against original cars in historic events. They had one on display at Monterey.

Did I say high-end? Prices start at 'under $100,000'.

For a roller !

Yup. Familiar with those. All aluminum, and very nice. I thought they were more like $300k.

FYI I've been away from the garage for a while and will be away this weekend too. But by way of update, I made a press mold for the rear inner aluminum and pressed the center bit as a test. It's not quite right but I think this technique will work with a bit of tweaking.

I also splurged on a set of planishing hammers and dollies, and a couple of flangers to facilitate said tweaking.

I'll post in a couple weeks when I return to it.

Mitch, those 502'cars are awesome!  The panel gaps look big on the Spyder but otherwise, yowaza! 

The guys from 502 are amazing -- really knowledgeable, very kind and extremely helpful. I know them well and have interacted with them (last a Monterey two years ago). 

The price of under $100,000 seems to be for a body and chassis (from their website). I'd imagine that, once it is painted and fully assembled, it would be in the $200-250k range. 

The most elusive aspect of the Spyder is the rear fenders. It is a tough shape to get right. Even with the variations between bucks within the Wendler plant, many of the replicas are still a bit different. 

The best I've seen is the one from Rusty Tubs. 

Anand

Been away from the Spyder for a couple weeks: trips to see the eclipse and then the inlaws. Today I bought a couple sheets of 22 or 24-gauge aluminum sheet to do the inner clam panel with, when final. I've bent some scrap this thick and also some flashing, which is about half as thick (and wrinkles quite a bit), working out the shapes and planning. Here's the center section from that first try with the thin metal.

I think the thicker metal will look better and also be a lot stiffer. I also think I'll be able to braze it together rather than relying on rivets and body filler.

Looking good Ed

Pete

Spent about six hours today bending the heavier aluminum sheet. Here's where we stand now.

I don't thinks holes in that tin foil will make much of a difference.

Impresssive work, Ed.

Looking good Ed. I was over Bill's place in Potomac MD last Monday his 550 is now up and running. He's done some really slick mods to add more cool air from the grills toward the engine. Basically he designed sort of a wing under his puller fan that's attached under the grills with SS sip ties. It pulls the air in then blows it on the wing which then moves it to the engine and carbs. Also built in the wing is his oil cooler which receives the fan air as well. It works really well and when kicked in without the motor running sounds like a turbo-jet. You gotta see it. Unfortunately I've got a pretty good oil leak going since my engine pull in July not sure where it's coming from but every time I drive it I'm cleaning up oil. So I have to take the engine out again what a pain.  Makes me think about doing something similar with a smaller fan under the spare wheel. I like the look of having the spare. Bill is not using his. 

Pete

Can't even picture this wing thing. I do have to see it.

Meanwhile, still plugging away at this aluminum cladding. Getting close now in the clam shell. After that it's down to the floors, underpan, firewall (both sides) and a whole bunch of interior bits. Easy and fun!

Looking great Ed! I especially like the way you flanged the lightening holes.

Continuing. Gonna start final smoothing and paint on the inner clam this weekend (fingers crossed). Here's a selection of inner clams (all oriented similarly) for comparison purposes:

550-0090 (the one Spyder Factory, Alloy Cars, etc. all copy):

Here's one from a UK-based high-end replica maker:

from Rusty Tubs' $4,500+ fiberglass "clam correction" kit:

And Ed's homemade Crinkle Clam (TM):

I like Ed's solution!  Very neat work.

Ironing-out the wrinkly bits.

(Because I'm working without a lot of light), first guide coat shows a lot of 80-grit scratch.

Wow! Looking great Ed.

Pete

Dayum Ed!  That's coming along nicely.  

Got the transaxle back today. Now back to block sanding.

Excellent progress.  Loving that transaxle too..

Sunday: Shop Life

Only got like an hour and a half in today. Block sanding with 120 still. Also made the little boxes to cover the hinge bolts. 

Looking very good, Ed!

Looks awesome, Ed!

So I reengineered the shifter linkage in order to mount the spare tire properly.

@edsnova Hey Ed! You got some mad fabricating skilz, my brutha. BRAVO! 

Thanks, Jim. They're pretty modest, but I'm working on them.

Ditto MUSBJIM.......   Welcome to the Spyder version of the Madness....

Ed,

Thanks for chronicling this project. "In process" pictures are hard. Nobody wants to stop to take pictures. Thanks for doing it.

The shifter is going to move quite a bit when you go over bumps, just so you are aware. It will also move when throttle opens/shuts with changing engine loading.

DannyP posted:

The shifter is going to move quite a bit when you go over bumps, just so you are aware. It will also move when throttle opens/shuts with changing engine loading.

What is the preferred hot set-up with these cars, Danny? Is it a solid linkage, or cable?

Danny's got a Jamar that he modded. Bought good heims and booted them.

I'm curious to know why the shifter would move more with a cable rig than a solid linkage. I hope it's not because of my linkage mods. 

Spent six hours today on the spare tire rack. Yes, that is a bent Spyder-style tail brace, and yes, I do also plan to make Spyderesque forebraces for it, with hidden bolts so it's removable.

The shock-tower brace will also be reformatted for extra strength.

(previous identical post deleted to correct faulty link)

Welding...

I've still got some practice to do with Dr. Clock's old welder. 

Still, progress.

Looks like you're not getting penetration ... i.e wire feed speed, heat, tip.

Looks like I rushed because it was dinner time. Luckily, a couple years ago I got a grinder for Christmas.

Nominally better this morning. 

"Make the noise..."

Make the saddle snap on...

looking more passably like

Turn the heat up. Everything is laying on top.

Got it. Thanks, Stan.

I was gonna say it looks a little like not enough gas shrouding as well. 

Nice fabrication Ed! 

Yeah. Flux core gonna spatter. I've been judicious with the heat setting because I'm used to the 220 AC stick welder, which blows holes in anything thinner than Abrams tank armor plate. This thing ain't like that. Cranked it up to "D" and made everything cherry red and melty.

Luckily, I got a grinder for Christmas (and Bondo).

Here's where we're at now.

Looking good Ed. You are now a Hole eman. 

Great job Ed! Did you happen to weigh the piece before and after the holes? 

When I was drilling the hardened gears for my trans I had to buy carbide drill bits (HSS and even cobalt would barely make a mark), which when you break a bit (2-1/8" at $22 each and 1- 1/4" at over $50) in the middle of a set up it got pretty frustrating. I can't say enough about rotary tables, though- pretty neat equipment!

Yeah Ed, any idea on how much weight all your details are adding to the rear?

I did drop a ton of weight off mine by drilling out the wiper arms.

I've not weighed the stuff but I'm pretty good at estimating weight, and I estimate the big tubular piece (including the through bolts) is about 6-7 pounds. I'll look around for a fish scale to weigh it. The modified cross brace is about 6-7 ounces heavier than stock, and that saddle is a few ounces. The "Swiss Cheese" inner bracing is ridiculously light. Maybe 2 pounds, 3 tops.

I estimate the whole aluminizing-and-details project will total under 50. Maybe under 40. Running Vintage 190s instead of steelies should more than make up for the extra weight. 

btw your car is awesome. I might copy the drilled wiper arms. Love the hard tonneau. 

I love seeing what other people are doing because I love the details, sometimes it makes me laugh at myself. For example, I built a big 3/16" thick steel structure with welded cross members to support my front bumper, it probably weighs 25lbs. then I built a steel tube frame that hung off of it to support the battery, it probably weighs 3 or 4 lbs, total 29 lbs. Then I built a 16 ga sheet metal tray for the battery, probably 1 lb. then I punched and drilled a bunch of lightening holes in the sheet metal tray, probably saved 5 grams! BUT!... it looked cool!  I think I'll add a second battery and drill out my wiper blades!

Ah, Chris, a few more pounds up around the front bumper of a Speedster will do it no harm, and might do it some good. It's out around that rear bumper that you want to be judicious with the 3/16-inch plate.

vs:

Moving on. Rear axles, spacers, calipers, etc. I've got to get this car rolling so my neighbor can use the lift this weekend. 

Horn pockets. As original.

Nice touch!

I can’t wait to see this car in the flesh, Ed.

Nice work!